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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Carpentry Questions >> Which technology/tool? https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1429261946 Message started by Sandy on Apr 17^th, 2015, 10:12am

Title: Which technology/tool?
Post by Sandy on Apr 17^th, 2015, 10:12am

Hi all, I'm looking for some first hand experience/comments on the below 2 technologies.

I'm lucky enough to have been able to save enough money for a decent biscuit jointer, which is lucky as my 14yr old Freud died last month after a long and well used service.

I've done lots of searching the interweb and I'm leaning towards a Lamello Zeta 2 system that allows standard biscuits (following a blade change) and also the various Clamex joints to be used, which gives is great versatility (fair enough, at a cost).

However, I keep seeing rave reviews about the Festool Domino machines.

Anyone experience with both, or one of them and can offer any insights? I know the features of both and their technical capacities, but given the investment for either, and for sure it is an investment, I'd like to hear some user experiences if possible.

Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Which technology/tool?
Post by woodsmith on Apr 18^th, 2015, 6:12pm

It all depends what you want to use it for. I have a Domino and a Lamello biscuiter, but not the fancy oscillating one you mention. That, as far as I know, is to allow knock down joints to be fitted in the biscuit slot. I have the Lamello Invis system and if the joints are a similar price they will be too expensive to use much.

The Domino will make more traditional wood joints and can replace mortise and tenons for most cabinet making operations as well as replacing biscuits too. I think my Domino is fantastic and use it a lot and expected to give up with biscuits, however when my old DeWalt biscuiter died I replaced it with a Lamello and it gets used a lot, possible more than the Dom at the moment as I have been making a lot of ply and MDF cabinets and I prefere biscuits to dominos for this sort of job.

Title: Re: Which technology/tool?
Post by londonman on Apr 19^th, 2015, 10:00am

As Woodsmith suggests, it depends on what you are planning to use it for. After I got my Domino, I sold my biscuit jointer.

The great thing about dominos is that even before you apply any glue, the joints hold together. Which can be a bit of a downside if you are doing a trial fit - which is why I have some sanded down dominos with holes drilled in them so I can yank them out easily.

I'd be interested to know why WS prefers biscuits to domino's for cabinets.

Title: Re: Which technology/tool?
Post by woodsmith on Apr 19^th, 2015, 2:02pm

I prefere to use Biscuits as most of my cabinets are ply or MDF and both materials are hard on cutters. The Lamello has tungsten carbide teeth whereas the Dom has HSS. Also I like the fact I can line the two pieces up, with a clout from a mallet, without having to put the Domino on wiggle. Plus for 18mm thickness boards you have to use a small domino with relatively little glueing surface.

I probably use the Lamello twice as much as the Domino but if I could only have one machine I would keep the Dom as it is far more versatile.

Title: Re: Which technology/tool?
Post by Sandy on Apr 20^th, 2015, 12:21pm

Thanks for the replies so far, those comments give me more to think about now.

I've never had hold of a Domino machine, but am I right in saying it's not too far from a dowelling machine? No offence meant if you're an ardent fan, but I've just never seen one first hand.

I'm looking towards something that I can use as a standard biscuit jointer, that I can use in A and AA grade ply and solid timber for fixed/solid pieces of work, but then also a device that allows the quicker fixings (Tenso and Bisco resin pieces) for volume/repeat pieces like kitchen cabinets numerous doors and/or then knock down capabilities like the Clamex Joint for pieces that are difficult to manouevre if they were pre-built in a workshop. What I don't want are multiple machines to do similar jobs, but I do want something that'll be as good a quality tool in 10yrs as it is now.

From what I can work out, it looks like the Domino joints are like 2 dowels side by side, is that right? What kind of minimum depth and thickness of timber can you realistically work in with the Domino?

Title: Re: Which technology/tool?
Post by woodsmith on Apr 20^th, 2015, 11:04pm

I think the Clamex joints are £1.50 each, you could use 12 for a simple cabinet, so that's an additional £17 per cabinet compared to Doms or biscuits. That's why they haven't caught on.

Dominos in essence are dowels, the difference is they are oblong and so the joint won't rotate and they offer a much larger glueing area.

You have a very long list of requirements, i doubt you will find them all in one tool. There are even two different Domino machines to choose from.

Title: Re: Which technology/tool?
Post by Sandy on Apr 21^st, 2015, 8:49am

Thanks Woodsmith.

Yes, my requirements are certainly broader than I believe there are tools for. The more I look at it and the more I hear from you, the more my mind is moving away from the Lamello and more towards the Domino.

I see there is the DF700 giving 8, 10, 12 & 14mm Dominos and then the DF500 offering 4, 5, 6, 8 and 10mm Dominos. What's your view on using the larger sizes compared to the smaller ones? I would not be able to afford both machines to give me the variety of using 4mm through to 14mm, so I would have to choose one or the other.

My own logic would suggest that the smaller size Dominos would be for smaller stock material that would in turn be used in items less prone to stresses, so I would think that standard biscuits could be used. Thereby meaning that items requiring joints prone to larger stresses and strains would benefit form the larger Dominos. In short, I'm suggesting that the machine using the larger Dominos might be usable in more applications. Would that be fair to say?

Also, did you make any comparison between the Domino and something like the Mafell Duo Doweller? If so, what swayed you towards Dominos?

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Which technology/tool?
Post by woodsmith on Apr 21^st, 2015, 11:34pm

I have the original Domino and I wouldn't swap it for the larger model which I think they market more for joinery rather than furniture making. Personally if something needs a big mortise and tenon I wouldn't like to use a lose tenon as it relies so much more on a good adhesive bond. So it depends what you want to use it for really.

As for the doweller, I never really considered it. As far as I can see it's far less flexible than a Domino and more for someone who constantly makes a particular type of cabinet which suits dowelled construction. Not cheap either!

Title: Re: Which technology/tool?
Post by londonman on May 2^nd, 2015, 4:39pm

I echo what woodsmith says. I've used the smaller domino for making up smallish windows but I wouldn't use it for the front door!