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DIY Forum >> Electrical Questions >> Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
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Message started by Outlaner1812 on Aug 28th, 2015, 12:41pm

Title: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by Outlaner1812 on Aug 28th, 2015, 12:41pm

In http://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1440575922 I mentioned a problem with a waste water pipe the owner of a Home 'improvement' company has c*cked up.

His 'team' installed a new ceiling in our revamped kitchen/dining room into which he fitted a dozen spotlight flush with the ceiling. Two started to fall out. The owner came, said he'll shouted before at his sparky for using an oversized hole cutter in ceiling - this is what happed again. He silicone the two lights and says all is now fine. But I want to ask him when will the other ten fall out, why did he sub work to a sparky who'd previously caused this type of problem and did he really employ a sparky - I think he did it all himself.

silicon might be fine for now but when I have to replace a light and use a screwdriver to get it out I'll probably damage the ceiling - in a brand new kitchen/dining room.

Is it worth me taking the risk of calling him back every time a light drops out or should I bite the bullet now and tell him to start all over again? I'm in Vistor Meldrew mode so am prepared to take whatever legal action is necessary.

By the way, is this work covered by the new building regs? i.e. does this work have to be done by a qualified electrician?

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by thescruff on Aug 28th, 2015, 10:55pm

The electric certainly has to have paperwork, the sparks will tell you what, when they log on.

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by Lectrician on Aug 29th, 2015, 8:31pm

All work should have a certificate, even if just a minor work certificate.

Any new circuits should be notified to the BCO either directly, or via a registered body such as the NICEIC.

What sort of fittings are they? Any photos of them?

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by Outlaner1812 on Sep 21st, 2015, 10:39am

Hi Lectrician. Sorry for the delay - I've been away.

I'll chase him up re the paperwork but from what I've seen I have no high hopes.

There are 12 GU10's. The photo is of the first one with a fault that we found, that he then 'repaired' and that, now is falling off again. His silicon didn't work.

He's also c*cked up a repair to a waste pipe under the kitchen and I'll be telling him that we're getting in a proper plumber, that he'll have to pay for it.

So, 2 of the 12 lights have already slipped and another two have started to slip.  Would a proper sparky be able to correct the problem with some kind of adaptor or will putting them right mean a new ceiling?

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by Outlaner1812 on Sep 21st, 2015, 10:42am

I'll have to resize the picky! And try to remove the one I've just posted.
:-[

Trying again:

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by Lectrician on Sep 23rd, 2015, 8:21am

JCC LED 6 or LED 10 have a slightly larger foot print, so you could replace with them.

They are expensive, but have a ten year warranty, and the output is excellent.  You would notice a huge difference to the lamps you have there!

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by Outlaner1812 on Oct 14th, 2015, 7:47am

Thanks Lectrician. I got prices etc and got in touch with the Home "Improvement" company. The owner has finally got the message - his sub-contracted sparky used an over-sized hole cutter and has done so before. So he, the owner, must pay to resolve it.
The owner agreed but then his sparky went on holiday.

He's only just got back (hence the delay in posting). As expected, he's reluctant to come back and fit larger bezels. What he's proposed is to apply caulk to the twelve holes.

I'm trying to be fair to him before I go into my Victor Meldrew mode, so can I ask if caulking will stop the lights from dropping down? If not, then I'll have to raise the stakes.

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by thescruff on Oct 14th, 2015, 9:24am

No It will be a bodge.

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by CWatters on Oct 14th, 2015, 1:51pm

Perhaps have him cut discs of plasterboard using the same oversize cutter. Fix those in place, skim with plaster to repair finish and redrill new holes in right size. New holes will probably have to be in a different place.

No calking!



Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by Outlaner1812 on Oct 17th, 2015, 8:24am

thanks both. Help much appreciated. Will update you re progress.

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by Outlaner1812 on Dec 19th, 2015, 7:16am

So bogged down with bl#~#y Microsoft failed updates, that I've been unable to get back until now.

The owner of the (so-called) Building 'Improvement' firm eventually not only paid for the Sparky to supply and fit 12 new slightly larger units, but he also paid £110 for a decorator to come back and repair the holes that were made in this new job. (Inevitable really, trying to enlarge an existing hole.)

Just need to get the building cert from the sparky (should be quick now he's seen my Dark Side Meldrew persona) and the job's a good 'un.

Oh - just one more question. The bulbs are GU10 - can I replace some of them with slightly brighter bulbs (if 'bulb' is still used)?  :-? Sparky didn't leave the packaging.

Thanks everyone at Ask The Trades for giving up your time to share your knowledge and expertise. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy & Healthy New Year.  ;D

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by CWatters on Dec 19th, 2015, 12:04pm


Quote:
Oh - just one more question. The bulbs are GU10 - can I replace some of them with slightly brighter bulbs (if 'bulb' is still used)?  


What are they at the moment? Halogen 35W or 50W? LED? That should be written on the bulb somewhere.

I've replaced all my 240V 50W GU10 halogen downlights with LED bulbs. I usually look for LEDs rated for at least 350 Lumens. You can find some sellers claiming 400-500 Lumens on ebay and elsewhere but beware...

Not all LEDs are reliable. I've had some fail after 6months. Others are still good after 2-3 years.

Not all LED are dimmable and those that are don't always dim very well.

Not all LED are exactly the same size as halogen. They vary in length and diameter. Even a 1mm difference can sometimes cause problems depending on the fitting. Some fittings are more tolerant than others.

The beam angle can vary from 36-180 degrees. I prefer the wider angle versions (say 100 degrees or more) for general lighting.

LED come in cold or warm white. I prefer warm white. The cold white can look brighter but also a bit harsh or even slightly blue.

Some LEDs are positively dangerous..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keaE7QTKTYE

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by Outlaner1812 on Jan 13th, 2016, 8:45am

A Happy, Healthy & Prosperous New Year to you!

I've only just got back to this thanks to my older laptop being screwed-up by the Microsoft Free Upgrade to Windows10 - what a bl**dy farce. I'll post details if there's a General Odds & Sods section here.

Your reply is very helpful. I'll go away and check out the bulbs and will then sort it out. I'll update this when done but, thanks to Microsoft, it may be a week or two!   ;)

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by baz on Jan 14th, 2016, 11:45am

You know what they say.
To err is human, but it takes a computer to really screw things up! ;D

Title: Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Post by londonman on Jan 17th, 2016, 4:00pm


CWatters wrote on Dec 19th, 2015, 12:04pm:

Quote:
Oh - just one more question. The bulbs are GU10 - can I replace some of them with slightly brighter bulbs (if 'bulb' is still used)?  


What are they at the moment? Halogen 35W or 50W? LED? That should be written on the bulb somewhere.

I've replaced all my 240V 50W GU10 halogen downlights with LED bulbs. I usually look for LEDs rated for at least 350 Lumens. You can find some sellers claiming 400-500 Lumens on ebay and elsewhere but beware...

Not all LEDs are reliable. I've had some fail after 6months. Others are still good after 2-3 years.

Not all LED are dimmable and those that are don't always dim very well.

Not all LED are exactly the same size as halogen. They vary in length and diameter. Even a 1mm difference can sometimes cause problems depending on the fitting. Some fittings are more tolerant than others.

The beam angle can vary from 36-180 degrees. I prefer the wider angle versions (say 100 degrees or more) for general lighting.

LED come in cold or warm white. I prefer warm white. The cold white can look brighter but also a bit harsh or even slightly blue.

Some LEDs are positively dangerous..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keaE7QTKTYE


And not all 'cold whites' are the same from different manufacturers so whatever you go for get a couple of spare bulbs as colour matching downline when they die will be a nightmare...which explains why I hate LEDs.

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