Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Welcome To Ask The Trades!
Mar 28th, 2024, 9:51am
Quote: Why do people without a watch look at their wrist when you ask them what time it is?


Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Plastic plumbing (Read 14245 times)
Broadback
Newbie
*
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 1


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0



Plastic plumbing
Apr 12th, 2004, 3:10pm
 
After years of diy plumbing with copper I thought that I would give plastic a try.  What I need is a source of information,
such as, do all manufactuers fittings fit all pipes, (as in copper) what sizes are the pipes, how does that relate to copper sizes, what fittings are there for conversion, in fact owt.

The project is to replace lead  feeder with the blue plastic, and replace internal lead (some lead some copper) with plastic.

I've searched Google but not found much in the way of info.

TIA
John
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
Mike_Jackson
Trade Member
*****
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 20


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0



Trade: Not Specified

Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #1 - Apr 12th, 2004, 3:43pm
 
The external pipework will be MDPE (blue plastic) and available in 20mm, 25mm etc.

Internal pipework is generally sized the same as copper for ease of use.

You need some form of transition coupling between the two, this normally also incorporates the main stop tap.

Mike
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
thescruff
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Who said plumbing was
easy.
Posts: 6037


Total Thanks: 147
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Plumber



Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #2 - Apr 12th, 2004, 3:44pm
 
I prefer the speedfit stuff if I have to use anything.

15mm & 22mm & 28mm all the same size as copper.

Compression fitting can be used with it to convert to male or female threads.

From the blue poly fit your stopcock in the normal way and run the plastic from there.

Tips, make sure the pipe is well fixed or you will end up with water hammer, the fittings are no good with the old imperial sizes.

When joining to copper the fittings just push on without the need for an insert, also best to use a silicon grease.

scruff
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
greg
Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #3 - Apr 13th, 2004, 12:10am
 
make sure the pipe is pushed all the way home into the fitting

plastic pipe should be clipped every 500mm

best to convert back to copper where pipe will be seen
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
The_Trician
Trade Member
*****
Offline


Posts: 7721


Total Thanks: 8
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #4 - Apr 13th, 2004, 8:00pm
 
Hi guys - just visiting from the sparkies end!

Try the JG Speedfit site for lots of info on plastic pipe/fittings etc.

BUT - I don't think it covers the following queries?

Been doing my bathroom this week - new hot and cold feeds via speedfit.
I would like to know if there are any problems with lagging the H/W feed from the combi - don't worry - first 3 metres from the combi are in 15mm copper!

Speedfit is rated for 65'C and I wondered about the pipe overheating if I lagged it? Any views anyone?

Also, are there any regs I need to be aware of when fitting isolation/service valves in the hot feed from the combi?
Back to top
 

Thats the trouble with a colostomy - you can never find the shoes to match the bag.......
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
Plumber
Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #5 - Apr 13th, 2004, 8:59pm
 
Laggting speedfit as far as I am aware is no problem, even the hot, I think it is good practice to insulate all hot water and heating pipes conserves energy

Isolation valve are not a problem again good practice would be to fit an isolation/service valve at each appliance, basin, bath, wc etc

Ensure you use the correct insert if using compression fittings with speedfit
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
thescruff
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Who said plumbing was
easy.
Posts: 6037


Total Thanks: 147
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Plumber



Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #6 - Apr 13th, 2004, 9:12pm
 
JG Speedfit is rated at.


Central heating 3.0 bar at 92c

Hot water          6.0 bar at 65c

Cold water      12.0 bar at 20c

speedfit fittings suitable for central heating systems can withstand temperatures up to 114c intermittently for short periods.

Some fittings are not suitable for heating system and are primarily for domestic hot and cold up to 65c.

Scruff
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
n2o
Newbie
*
Offline

You hum it. I'll play
it!
Posts: 1


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #7 - Apr 13th, 2004, 11:46pm
 
The_Trician,

When I first saw your posting I thought you were going to mention earth bonding and plastic pipes and copper pipes, etc., in bathrooms. This seems to cause a lot of confusion with electricians. They seem very keen on bonding.

As for the lagging of pipes, this is good practice, but the heat transference of plastic pipe is less than that of copper. Although as part of a kitchen that I was installing I cabled some polybutylene pipes under the units to a kickspace heater. The electrician had routed the cable for the ring main behind vertical metal capping from below the floorboards to each socket. The capping had been plastered over, but he was concerned about these pipes causing heat damage to his cables. To put his mind at rest and avoid unnecessary heat losses I insulated the pipes. When I returned to the job the following day I found that he had positioned sections of 3" x 3" timber blocks between these pipes and the wall. If that wasn't being over cautious I don't what was considering the number of times I have lifted floorboards to find cables wrapped round copper c/h pipes, etc.

If you are going to fit any isolation/service valves I would recommend that you fit good quality full bore lever ball valves. The types with the screw slot tend to leak when they are turned.
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
The_Trician
Trade Member
*****
Offline


Posts: 7721


Total Thanks: 8
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #8 - Apr 14th, 2004, 12:22am
 
Thank you for all of your responses gentlemen. I shall lag away then!

I just wondered that if the pipe was rated at 65'C and you were continuously running hot water - say for a bath - then the lagging might not allow the heat to escape and therefore overheat the pipe, especially as JG state that it has lower heat losses than copper - BUT you've put my mind at rest.

On the subject of screw-type isolation valves - Yes - I have found out today that they don't seal too well if they are used more than once - that is; they are 'second-hand' from another part of the house. Had a drip or two thru' the hallway ceiling earlier! Traced it to a naff isolation valve not sealing properly when in the 'off' position.
Back to top
 

Thats the trouble with a colostomy - you can never find the shoes to match the bag.......
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
HM
Super Member
*****
Offline

Chief Turd Polisher
Posts: 5072


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #9 - Apr 14th, 2004, 2:19am
 
[quote author=n2o  link=1081779058/0#7 date=1081896368]They seem very keen on bonding [/quote]

I thought I'd wandered into the wrong forum for a minute, then I realised what you were referring to.... Wink

Andrew
Back to top
 

If you aren't always sure of the right answer don't take up a career in the bomb squad
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
thermo
Junior Member
**
Offline


Posts: 13


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #10 - Oct 17th, 2004, 10:25pm
 
Ill add my two penneth to this as a complete novice user of the speed fit stuff, having just re-run my central heating system in it.  My observations are probably nothing new to most of you, but they may be of help to those considering using it.

1:- when you first use it, dont forget the inserts! I did for the first couple of fittings and thought god this is difficult to put on. Sounds stupid i know, but it was easily done!

2:- if you are re-running pipe with limited access under floors etc, the coils of pipe are bloody hard to use as they dont like being straightened, i found the straight lengths better, but this defeats the object of no joins

3:- the 22mm stuff is very hard to fit onto copper, unless you apply some sort of lubricant. I found it best to put the copper in before it went under the floor where possible

4:- its quite hard in confined areas to have enough room to do the fitting up, so watch your knuckles!

5:- you never have enough of the fittings you really need!

6:- it does take some getting used to, ive been raised on traditonal copper plumbing (limited compared to most of you i know)

7:- listen for that tell tell click of re-assurance when you get it properly home (dont have the stereo on or the wife and kids in the house (works both ways as they cant hear you swear either)

Do i rate it? Well it certaimly is faster when youve got easy access and it flys along and i would have had to have ripped a lot more of the floors up. Its quite fun grappaling with a 22mm 25 metre long coiled snake trying to straighten it. My final word.......well youll have to wait till tomorrow when i refill the system. Being a traditionalist it is still a large leap of faith for me to use this stuff.....ill keep you posted!!!

Thermo
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN
Trade Member
*****
Offline

Cant talk,old folks to
rip off and tanks to
pee in
Posts: 846


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Not Specified

Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #11 - Oct 21st, 2004, 7:25pm
 
I prefer Hep20, seems more robust to me, allready lubricated, oeer missis,  I use the barrier pipe for heating and straight into the rad valve if coming form under the floor, for droppers I use copper and change to plastic under upstairs floor.
Back to top
 

If you cant find someone else to blame, run like fack.
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
billythekid
Trade Member
*****
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 3402


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0



Trade: Plumber

Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #12 - Oct 22nd, 2004, 12:48am
 
gotta agree with PVM on the Hep2O being the better "feeling" pipe. Cant stand the plastic stuff myself, i only use copper(or chromed now and again).
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
HM
Super Member
*****
Offline

Chief Turd Polisher
Posts: 5072


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #13 - Oct 22nd, 2004, 7:32am
 
[quote author=billythekid  link=1081779058/0#12 date=1098402516]gotta agree with PVM on the Hep2O being the better "feeling" pipe. Cant stand the plastic stuff myself, i only use copper(or chromed now and again). [/quote]

Me too, but I became a convert to plastic on my last plumbing job which was very awkward under a kitchen sink.

Took me 'kin ages to do a couple of copper compression joints under there, holding one spanner still whilst doing the compression fitting up 1/8th of a turn at a time.

A short time later I had what looked to be an impossible joint to make under there, getting a spanner in there nigh on impossible. So I thought "what the heck, give this plastic stuff a try". I'd been carrying these plastic joints around with me for a long time but feared trying them 'cos they didn't seem man enough.

It took seconds to connect everything up. On my next visit to the plumbing place I got some multi-packs of each common plastic joint.

Andrew
Back to top
 

If you aren't always sure of the right answer don't take up a career in the bomb squad
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
bstyle
Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #14 - Oct 22nd, 2004, 8:11pm
 
Most guys I know use hep and myself included. It does seem more robust like you say. I installed a Bathroom recently and every tap needed to be pumped so I ran 22mm hep all the way into the airing cupboard from downstairs (about 25m) with not one join it took 3 hours, would have taken all day with copper!
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
thescruff
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Who said plumbing was
easy.
Posts: 6037


Total Thanks: 147
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Plumber



Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #15 - Oct 22nd, 2004, 8:50pm
 
[quote author=bstyle  link=1081779058/0#14 date=1098472296]Most guys I know use hep and myself included. It does seem more robust like you say. I installed a Bathroom recently and every tap needed to be pumped so I ran 22mm hep all the way into the airing cupboard from downstairs (about 25m) with not one join it took 3 hours, would have taken all day with copper! [/quote]


Don't they keep tripping over it ??????

Grinscruff Grin
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
thescruff
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Who said plumbing was
easy.
Posts: 6037


Total Thanks: 147
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Plumber



Re: Plastic plumbing
Reply #16 - Oct 22nd, 2004, 10:56pm
 
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print