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fixing to stone walls (Read 15590 times)
mr_spanton
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fixing to stone walls
Jul 13th, 2004, 4:24pm
 
Can anyone offer advice please?
What do you need to watch out for when fixing door linings (or any thing else) to a stone wall? The one I may well have to deal with is sandstone, but is rendered so I dont know yet if its random stone or squarish blocks. Would it be feasible to use wooden wedges (if I can find the mortar gaps) or would plug type fastenings be better. ??? Any tips & advice very welcome. Thanks
Mr Spanton
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Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #1 - Jul 13th, 2004, 4:33pm
 
Whilst you might need something more substantial, don't rule out Gripfill if all else fails. Or Pinkfill if you want it to bond fast.

With something like a door lining/frame it might only need to be held in place rather than acquire strength from the bond.

Andrew
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big_all
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Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #2 - Jul 13th, 2004, 5:29pm
 
one way of doing it would be with say a
19 mm mortar gap
you take a bit of wood about 25% more 25mm
thick you then shave off opposing diagonal edges
untill you have a proppeler shaped bit of wood of
19mm you then bang it in the twist holds it in
if it happens to be 19mm you just cut a bit of
two by one sawn about 2 inches long into the wall
end grain showing

a little concern about  grip fill andrew is sand stone
is a bit crumbly and might just pull a layer off
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WJOHNM
Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #3 - Jul 13th, 2004, 5:34pm
 
as we scot's know it big_all
a dook!!!!!!!! Wink Wink
john
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Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #4 - Jul 13th, 2004, 6:10pm
 
[quote author=big_all  link=1089732299/0#2 date=1089736199]a little concern about  grip fill andrew is sand stone is a bit crumbly and might just pull a layer off [/quote]
Yes, I agree that would be a concern, but if there's no tension between the wall and the fitment it might serve a purpose just to hold something in place.

Andrew
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Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #5 - Jul 13th, 2004, 7:11pm
 
sorry andrew read your answer PROPERLY this time:o Shocked
and what you said as filling a space of course
is spot on Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Jul 13th, 2004, 7:12pm by big_all »  

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mr_spanton
Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #6 - Jul 13th, 2004, 8:43pm
 
thanks for your responses lads Smiley
What is gripfill or pinkfill? ???
What you suggested  Big Al was the option that I had considered, although I suppose it depends on the mortar gaps being more or less horizontal. Would it be worth considering making some grooves for wedges with a small cutting wheel if the stone is random??
Is a glue type option better than plas plug type fixings??
(is gripfill or pinkfill a type of glue?)
Again thanks for your suggestions
Mr Spanton Wink
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Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #7 - Jul 13th, 2004, 9:03pm
 
[quote author=mr_spanton  link=1089732299/0#6 date=1089747780]What is gripfill or pinkfill? ??? [/quote]
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=10261&ts=48706

And sorry, it's called Pinkgrip (not Pinkfill):

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/searchresults.jsp;jsessionid=IVYPAZCK2XVU5CJ...

Basically it's a glue - Pinkgrip is tackier and sets quicker than Gripfill (and is pink as the name suggests). Pinkgrip is the way to go if you want to put something up and have it stay in place.

It also has great gap filling properties. A good choice for something like a tumble dryer vent where you've drilled a hole thru a wall and have a few mm around the tube to fill - it both fills the hole and grips the tube in place.

It is applied with a sealant gun:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp;jsessionid=IVYPAZCK2XVU5CJO2C3CJ0Q?i...

If you buy a tube of this stuff then remember to have a 6in nail handy - you stuff that in the end of the nozzle after you've used part of the tube and it keeps it fresh until the next use.

Andrew
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Dewy
Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #8 - Jul 13th, 2004, 9:15pm
 
Pinkfill is something completely different. lmao
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Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #9 - Jul 13th, 2004, 9:20pm
 
why dont you scrape out a large amount
of the mortar parr a bit of wood to fit in
about 2 inch wide sticking out slightly farther
than required in 3 or 4 places on each side
fill hole with cement push wood back in
when set cut off wood to fit then hopfully
when you tighten up screws they wont
pull the wood out of the wall

this hopfully would give you the horizontal  
securing required Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Jul 14th, 2004, 10:34am by big_all »  

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jasonB
Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #10 - Jul 14th, 2004, 7:48am
 
Whenvver I've fixed to stone I just used plugs and screws and got a good fixing, with it being rendered you may end up drilling into a mortar joint that could be soft or hollow buy you would run the same risk with a brick wall anyway. A normal masonary bit should have no problems with the soft sandstone.

Jason
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Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #11 - Jul 14th, 2004, 8:26am
 
The only problems I find with stone walls is that they can be incredibly uneven. In this case I use wooden wedges, fit them too long then mark them with a spirit level before cutting them square.

Otherwise like Jason I just screw and plug. Only other thing to watch for is that often the mortar is very crumbly and if I were to go too mad with the SDS the blocks would fall out so then it's back to the wedges.
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pk
Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #12 - Jul 15th, 2004, 5:16pm
 
If it is an existing internal opening in a wall, then it will almost certainly be random stone, however, if it is an old external wall that is now internal (because of an extension) then at least the old outer face will be cut stone.  Check the verticals, cut stone tends to be vertical whereas random stone is more 'rustic'

One idea for fixing is using resin.  Drill the reveal, if it is stone...great, but if you hit mortar, or it's all a bit soft, use resin ( plus a mesh sleeve if really soft) and insert the plastic section of a frame anchor.  When the resin sets you can fix the lining using a big screw or the rest of the frame anchor.

Finally.....if it is random stone, and it is very uneven, try foam and then scribe the architrave
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ricktommo
Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #13 - Jul 23rd, 2004, 10:13pm
 
In my humble opinion, propellor shape timber wedges are from the days before power tools were widely used.  I was brought up on them as a young apprentice, but I haven't bother putting an axe in my tool box for many a year.

How about fixing the frame with either brown plugs and screws or frame fasteners and timber packers?  Fix into the stone, not the cement joints.   Foam filling takes the bounce out of the frame and makes re rendering or mastic pointing easier, it stops the packers dislodging too.

Foam seems to be considered a bit of a bodge, but one often pulls out Victorian rolled up newspapers when replacing windows and door casings in old houses.  Foam is better than todays paper anyday.
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Re: fixing to stone walls
Reply #14 - Jul 24th, 2004, 1:03am
 
helllooo r t
couldnt agree with you more
i have never worked with sand stone and
knowing its crumbly was just trying to advise
in a direction allong the lines he was asking
i use brown plugs ect Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
never used a flying boat to secure a door frame
but give em the choice and let em choose
i personaly couldnt be arsed [to much work]
but the options there Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Grin Grin
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