Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Welcome To Ask The Trades!
Apr 25th, 2024, 4:30pm
Quote: A rock --> me <-- A hard place


Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
MCB's (Read 13801 times)
spot
Junior Member
**
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 8


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0



MCB's
Sep 13th, 2004, 1:42pm
 
Could anyone explain the difference between type B and type C MCB's and is there a type A ???
MANY THANKS
spot......................... Embarrassed
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
LSpark
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 8069


Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


London, UK, United Kingdom
London, UK
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: MCB's
Reply #1 - Sep 13th, 2004, 2:18pm
 
Hey Spot

Well the main types of MCB's used are:

Type 1\Type 2\Type 3
Type B\Type C\Type D

(There is no Type-A)


the more modern are the type B\C\D, all of these MCB's have different characteristics

they each have a different tripping rate which as as follows
Type 1  x4            Type B  x5
Type 2  x7            Type C  x7
Type 3  x10          Type D  x10

In short, a type B will trip if the current rushes over 5 times the set ammout

e.g. a 6A breaker will fast trip at a current of 30A

We often use Type C & D Breakers because they allow whats called startup current, or inrush currents, which is where we switch on or run somthing that draws alot of current just at start up and then falls to its running current.

Fluorescent strip lights as one example can draw up to 4-5 times what they normaly run at and therefor if protected by a Type-B Breaker would 'trip' it, therefor we use a Type C, which overcomes this problem.

there are lots of other points and differences with breakers including the Short Circuit Capacity of a breaker, but hopefully this helps a bit
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
spot
Junior Member
**
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 8


Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0



Re: MCB's
Reply #2 - Sep 14th, 2004, 6:29pm
 
Nice one!
cheers   L.SPARK..................

SPOT........ Smiley
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
ban-all-sheds
Re: MCB's
Reply #3 - Sep 22nd, 2004, 7:28pm
 
Reason says that there ought to be a Type A MCB, but I've never seen any info on one.

B, C, and D have different time/current curves for tripping.   Type B will trip faster than type C for a given overcurrent, and type C will be faster than type D.  

The other way of looking at it is that type Ds need more current than type Cs, which need more than type Bs, to trip in a given amount of time.

In summary:

Code:
Type   Will not trip in     Will trip in
100ms at rating 100ms at rating

B 3 x 5 x
C 5 x 10 x
D 10 x 20 x



I tried to find a graph showing the typical curves superimposed, but failed miserably, however if you go here: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/3.6.4.htm you'll find a number of individual time-current curves that you can compare.

Why does this matter?   One of the jobs of a protective device is to disconnect the supply in the event of an earth fault - i.e. if something goes wrong with your fan heater or toaster, and a live conductor makes contact with the earthed case, then a current will flow to earth.   What we need is for that current to get large enough for the fuse to blow or the MCB to trip (the situation of current happily flowing to earth without tripping the breaker, and therefore with the case of the toaster remaining live is a Bad Thing™.)  We also want the current to get large enough quickly enough such that the case doesn't remain live for very long, and the earth conductor doesn't have time to get hot enough to melt.   This is called the disconnection time, and clearly, as I=V/R, we need a low resistance to get a high current.  A C type breaker needs a higher I to trip quickly than a type B does, so a circuit protected by a type C needs a lower earth loop resistance than one protected by a type B.

How much lower depends on how fast you want it to disconnect.   The wiring regs say that a socket circuit should have a disconnect time of 400ms.  Lighting circuits, by contrast, require a 5s disconnect time,and there is a case to be made for using type C breakers on lighting circuits because they are much less prone to tripping with the brief current surge that occurs when a lamp fails than a type B is.   At 5 seconds the curves for type B and C breakers have almost met,  i.e. there is very little difference in the earth loop resistance limits for a circuit with that disconnection time.

Not so at 400ms though.    The typical maximum values, in ohms, for the earth loop resistance (Zs), for 32A type B and C MCBs are:

Code:
Type   0.4s   5s 

B 1.50 1.71
C 0.75 1.6


As you have a TN-C-S supply, you might get away with type Cs on socket circuits, as the maximum allowable external component of the earth loop impedance (Ze) for that type of supply is 0.35 ohms.   (And of course the DNOs strive ceaselessly to ensure that this limit is never breached.   8) )
For a TN-S supply, Ze is allowed to be 0.8 ohms, so type C breakers are flat-out not allowed for socket circuits, but even with TN-C-S, you can see that there's not much left for your R1+R2 (the combined resistance of the live and earth wires in a circuit).

That, briefly   ??? , is why you'll see people expressing concerns about earth-fault-loop impedances.

It's a bit of a mish-mash of links, but you can read more about this topic here:

http://uk.altavista.com/web/results?kgs=0&tlb=1&ienc=utf8&q=host%3Awww%2Etlc-dir...
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
LSpark
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 8069


Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


London, UK, United Kingdom
London, UK
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: MCB's
Reply #4 - Sep 22nd, 2004, 9:01pm
 
No offence BaS, but that would have been more helpfull 8 days ago!  Roll Eyes

Quote:
Reason says that there ought to be a Type A MCB, but I've never seen any info on one.

thats because there isnt one..

Quote:
That, briefly    , is why you'll see people expressing concerns about earth-fault-loop impedances.


breifly?, Think you just about covered it all in your post  Wink

Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2004, 9:09pm by LSpark »  
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
ban-all-sheds
Re: MCB's
Reply #5 - Sep 23rd, 2004, 9:06am
 
[quote author=L.Spark  link=1095079363/0#4 date=1095883312]No offence BaS, but that would have been more helpfull 8 days ago!  Roll Eyes [/quote]
Yo - sorry - I've been slacking... Embarrassed
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
LSpark
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 8069


Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


London, UK, United Kingdom
London, UK
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: MCB's
Reply #6 - Sep 23rd, 2004, 1:45pm
 
Indeed  Grin
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print