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socket height (Read 11943 times)
John   Davies
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socket height
Dec 29th, 2004, 1:21am
 
Aargh.......just when I thought the rewire was going well, and will hopefully be in by 1st Jan,  someone said - 'and of course you are putting in your sockets at a minimum 450mm aren't you.....'

To which the answer is 'no.'  

Apparently this is in Building Regs but not in the IEE regs, so a fat lot of use it was in my almost memorising them before starting the job!

Questions

Does this just apply to new builds? If so, doing it in the kitchen (when built) will be no problem.  Doing it in the rest of the house will be a problem however.

If this applies to rewires also, is it just sufficient to provide one socket in each room at the new recommended height for disabled use on the ground floor only?  This could be done fairly easily by running a spur off the sockets already installed.

I really do not want to do this - apart from the extra work, as far as I can see sockets mounted at this height would give an awful problem with trailing cables.

Luv n kisses

a hot and bothered John Davies
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LSpark
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Re: socket height
Reply #1 - Dec 29th, 2004, 1:35am
 
Hello John

Yes part of the building regulations Part M, which was then supplemented into the IEE wiring regulations.

This means all sockets and switches need to be located within a set band, which is between 450mm and 1200mm where sockets are in the lower part of that and switches are in the upper part of that.

Please be advised all should be done like this if you want to comply, however I believe there is a loophole in the rule, this however I don't know about for sure, someone else may be able to advise you better about that, however it would be wise if your bashing out just to comply.

Trailing cables could be seen as a problem, depends really upon the height of furnishings and other things located around the house, sockets should be provided so that electrical items are in easy reach of a socket, bearing in mind most electrical items have cables between about 1m and 2m long.
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« Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2004, 2:36am by LSpark »  
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ban-all-sheds
Re: socket height
Reply #2 - Dec 29th, 2004, 9:40am
 
AFAIK it only applies to new builds, and major refurbishments, not rewires.

Firstly, it's only a Building Inspector who's going to give you grief about it, so if the work you're doing has no involvement from Building Control, then you can stick the accessories where you like.

Secondly, even if you are being inspected, if the cables for the light switches drop down the wall, and those for the sockets come up from under the floor, it's pretty easy to have them pass through boxes on the way, at the height that you want, which you plaster over.

Once Mr Building Jobsworth has signed off, uncover these, shorten the cables, fill in the others and decorate.
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get_it_done
Re: socket height
Reply #3 - Jan 12th, 2005, 7:26pm
 
I was in contact with my local BC inspector today (Plymouth) about another matter, so took the opportunity to clear his understanding of Part M.  The answer surprised me.

He said that as well as applying to new-build and rewires, he would expect partial rewires where new sockets were installed to comply with Part M.  He did not expect existing sockets to be changed just the new ones.
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JohnDavies
Re: socket height
Reply #4 - Jan 12th, 2005, 7:32pm
 
So I hear. What a pain.  Sad

As the house is being refurbished it makes sense to do it all in one fell swoop.

Therefore, all sockets now comply, all switches now comply and I am suddenly taking an immense interest in the plastering forum........... Smiley

Thanks

John Davies
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« Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2005, 7:35pm by tjohndavies »  
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tellondon
Re: socket height
Reply #5 - Jan 12th, 2005, 10:20pm
 
Hope you have kept to the rest of the building regs John?

Part A

B

E

F

L

M

and last but not least PART P
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billythekid
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Re: socket height
Reply #6 - Jan 12th, 2005, 10:29pm
 
anyone got a picture of a socket 450mm up the wall, that seems like miles!!! mine are about 200mm off the floor, and we were just re-wired(is it another England vs Scotland thing)
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LSpark
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Re: socket height
Reply #7 - Jan 12th, 2005, 10:59pm
 
[quote author=billythekid  link=1104283302/0#6 date=1105568946]a picture of a socket 450mm up the wall [/quote]

400mm, best I could do for ya billy  Grin

...

450mm isnt that bad anyway, it's not miles, we have some here that are 1m up the wall, but that's because furnature is under it.


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chtechie
Re: socket height
Reply #8 - Jan 12th, 2005, 11:29pm
 
Page 155 of the OSG has the extract from Part M and it also says in Scotland you need to comply with BS7671 but there's no minimum. However I guess soon we're going to find a Reg which tells us that in flood susceptable areas we'll need to fit IP 7x fittings to all ground floor outlets ?
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zambezi
Re: socket height
Reply #9 - Jan 13th, 2005, 5:37pm
 
The last refurb i did, i told the customer that the switches and sockets should be between 450 and 1200mm, they refused and said they would deal with whoever did not like them 250 from the floor. What was i to do? ???
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Itworkedb4
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Re: socket height
Reply #10 - Jan 13th, 2005, 5:47pm
 
I know you have probably done this to death, but who is to blame if the customer insists on them being lower than the 450?
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tellondon
Re: socket height
Reply #11 - Jan 13th, 2005, 6:07pm
 
If a building inspector happens to `pop` in you are responsible
If you dont keep to building regulations or BS7671 YOU are responsible,there is no excuse, if a cowboy does a very dodgy installation he cant turn around and say well the client asked me to do it like that
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Re: socket height
Reply #12 - Jan 13th, 2005, 6:15pm
 
Putting the accessories at not the correct height is only a shabby job by law. If you had finished and off site before the inspection, would they prosecute or just expect you rectify the "problem"

If the latter then surely you just tell the punter I told you so and charge him again for the same work or am I being too simplistic (as usual).
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Beanzy
Re: socket height
Reply #13 - Jan 13th, 2005, 6:21pm
 
Yep Z I'd have walked politely away saying I can only work to BS7671 and the current building regs, but give me a call if anyone lets you down or anything........... Believe me there ain't that many customers who can face up to showing people the same job over and over. As long as you're sweet as pie when you tell them you'll have to leave it as your reputation depends on applying the rules professionally, they'll not even let you start the car up.
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dingbat
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Re: socket height
Reply #14 - Jan 13th, 2005, 7:38pm
 
But it still only applies to new builds and ground floor extensions. If your local authority have chosen to interpret the requirement wrongly you are within your rights to challenge them.

From Ray Tricker's Building Regulations in Brief

"The requirements apply if a building is newly erected, or has been substantially demolished, leaving only external walls."
"When a building is extended there is no obligation to carry out improvements within the existing building to make it more accessible to and usable by disabled people than it was before."
"When a building is altered there is no obligation to improve access and facilities for disabled people"


Rewiring isn't even an alteration, it's an update of an existing service. And ultimately it is the homeowner who has to comply with the building regulations - if the punter doesn't want them halfway up the wall it's his shout.
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Re: socket height
Reply #15 - Jan 13th, 2005, 9:15pm
 
Well put dingbat

Really the On site guide has put it in to help people comply with the regulations, in the same way compliance with BS 7671 is compliance with EAWR 1989, it's just knowing there there are some exceptions to where you have to stick to the height, and that 7671 is only guidance to good practice.
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JohnDavies
Re: socket height
Reply #16 - Jan 13th, 2005, 11:44pm
 
Oh - so now I can move them all back down (sockets) or up (switches) can I?  Grin

Just don't tell my wife that it all may have been needless.  Still, if ever I end up in a wheelchair again,  I may value the new heights..........

As to tell on don's comment about keeping to the rest of building regs, I do my best - but I fear that those relating to gas and electricity will be the most stringently enforced.  All they need now is to add plumbing in and I may as well go back to welding cars as a hobby.......!

John D
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