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Walls and Large Tiles (Read 5650 times)
davidinglis
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Walls and Large Tiles
May 23rd, 2006, 1:35pm
 
I am planning on ripping out my bathroom and installing a new one.

At the moment it's a plasterboard typical newbuild (7 years old, whoever installed the bathroom had no taste). The walls are partially tiled, about halfway up each wall, except the bath/shower section which is totally tiled.

The floor has large tiles which I'd like to remove also.

My intention is to retile the floor and walls using the same tiles, hopefully large (not sure of size yet) limestone tiles, which I assume will be pretty damn heavy.

Is there anything special I need to do to fix these to the walls, or should standard grout have enough grab to hold them?

Also, because part of the walls are painted with some kind of bathroom wall paint, do I need to do anything to that before I put the tile adhesive on or will it work fine on that surface?
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jasonB
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Re: Walls and Large Tiles
Reply #1 - May 23rd, 2006, 5:28pm
 
Are the walls taped and filled or skimmed?

A skimmed plasterboard wall will not hold as much weight as bare plasterboard and if tiling onto a painted surface the bond will only be as good as the paint to the wall Sad Also if you use the same tiles you will find that the flooring is cut thicker thicker than wall tiles so you will be overloading the walls.

Ideally you should completely remove the plasterboard and replace with new 12.5mm screwed to the studs or dabbed to the walls, in the shower area use Aqua panel and tank with WP1 kit from BAL

Grout is not the thing to use to fix tiles. You will be best off with a powdered adhesive that is white as grey will likely stain the stone, something like BAL CTF3 WHITE will do the job. The tiles should then be sealed with one of the Lithofin products and then grouted.

I assume the floor is 18-22mm chipboard. This is not strong enough to take natural stone, You have two options:
1, take up the existing chipboard and replace with 25mm WBP ply screwed at 200mm cts with noggins under all joints.
2, take up the existing floor tiles, overlay the chipboard with Aquapanel bedded in flexible tile adhesive and screwed at 200mm cts

You can then tile onto this with something like BAL rapidset Flexible(white) and grout with superflex or wide joint grout with AD1 admixture to make it flexible, not forgetting to seal the stone first.

Alternatively there are some very good ceramic/porcelain tiles that look like limestone /travertine around.
Jason
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davidinglis
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Re: Walls and Large Tiles
Reply #2 - May 24th, 2006, 8:05am
 
Ouch, not what I wanted to hear...

Would any good bathroom installer do as you have suggested? Reason I ask is I am perfectly happy learning how to do this, but if it's too big a job to do properly maybe I'd be better getting someone in to do it.  Sad
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jasonB
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Re: Walls and Large Tiles
Reply #3 - May 24th, 2006, 8:12pm
 
Any good tiler /bathroom fitter who has experience in natural stone SHOULD do it this way, any other is a short cut. I would do it as above, all my work is through word of mouth, it only takes one bad job to get a bad name!

Why spend a lot of money on expensive natural stone and skimp on the prep/fixing. Also watch what stone you are buying as there is a lot of inferior quality stone being sold for over the odds.

Have a look at this site for a bit more info, the company is owned by a well respected tiler who posts on several forums.

http://www.atstone.co.uk/index.htm
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davidinglis
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Re: Walls and Large Tiles
Reply #4 - May 25th, 2006, 7:59am
 
Thanks for the tips and link.

If I were to go for non-stone tiles, which would obviously not be as thick or heavy, would I be able to do what I wanted above, without replacing all the plasterboard?
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jasonB
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Re: Walls and Large Tiles
Reply #5 - May 25th, 2006, 7:20pm
 
If you go the ceramic/porcelain route then do the following:

Walls

Strip off old tiles and make good any damaged plaster/plasterboard. You may find it easier to totally remove the tiled plasterboard if the tiles are well stuck as removing them will severly damage the plasterboard.

The paint adhesion should be tested, stick a bit of gaffa/carpet tape to the wall, leave for 10mins then pull off. If the paint stays put you can tile onto it if the tape pulls the paint with it you will need to remove all the loose paint.

Then tile onto this, depending on the size of tile you may get away with a good premixed adhesive or if they are very large then a powdered adhesive will be better.

If any board needs replacing around the shower then use Aquapanel, or if the plasterboard is sound leave it. In both cases the area should be tanked as no tile/grout combination is totally impervious to water, A BAL WP1 kit costs about £50 and can be applied in 1hrs, worth it for pease of mind.

Floor

Strip the old covering, make sure the chipboard is securely fixed and that any bits that have been cut up for pipe access are well supported. Then overlay with 12mm WBP ply screwed at 200mm cts. You can then tile onto this with flexible adhesive & grout.

Hereis a bathroom I did earlier this year, tiles have a stone look and are 450x330 with 330x330 matching floor tiles. You can always set the tile with a brick bond to look more like stone.

If you are reasonably practical there should be no reason you can't do it yourself, just shout if there are any more queries.

Jason
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« Last Edit: May 25th, 2006, 7:20pm by jasonB »  
 
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davidinglis
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Re: Walls and Large Tiles
Reply #6 - May 26th, 2006, 11:22am
 
Thanks for the help mate, I think that's all I'll need to get on with the job. 2 last questions though.

Seeing as the bathroom floor is already tiled, will it not already have the second layer of wood? When I ripped out the downstairs bathroom the floor had a plywood covering, whereas I know the rest of the house is chipboard under the floor. If I'm using what's there, should I seal it? I was told to seal the ply in the downstairs bathroom.

Lastly, I have an elecric shower which I will be replacing with a mixer, so will need to cut new holes for the mixer pipes. Is there anything I should put behind the tiles at this point where the holes are, such as silicone sealant, seeing as you said to coat the plasterboard in the shower section.

Actually, this is lastly Smiley The picture of that bathroom you did, do you think the painted surfaces of the walls (assuming duct tape doesn't pull the paint off) could take similar tiles?

Thanks again
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jasonB
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Re: Walls and Large Tiles
Reply #7 - May 26th, 2006, 7:54pm
 
If you can get the old tiles up without destroying the ply then it should be OK. I don't seal/prime ply floors just give then a good vacuum to remove any dust, spread the adhesive well onto the ply with the flat side of the trowel then rake it out with the notched side.

Most mixers have a seal behind the facia that should do but a bead of silicone wher the pipe cones through the tile won't hurt.

The wall  in the picture above was actually painted skimmed plasterboard, I replaced the board on the opposite wall as it got too damaged trying to get the tiles off, the bit where the shower is was replaced with aquapanel. I have uploaded a few more progress pics, all the ones prefixed "J" in this album

Jason
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mudster
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Re: Walls and Large Tiles
Reply #8 - Jun 9th, 2006, 12:57pm
 
As far as weight goes, the following are British Standards:-

Skim plastered wall, skimmed plasterboards will hold 20kg/m2

Unfinished plasterboard and some tile backer boards will hold 32kg/m2

Aquapanel and some other cement based boards will hold 50kg/m2

If you tank any of the surfaces the weight cannot exceed 32kg/m2 or the specific load for the substrate whichever is lower.
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sailfishoney
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Re: Walls and Large Tiles
Reply #9 - Jul 17th, 2006, 12:45pm
 
You want to fly me there I can do it.  Grin
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