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Insulation (Read 21426 times)
sparky415
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Insulation
Nov 3rd, 2009, 10:11pm
 
I've been thinking about installing laminate floor through my living room,
It has a suspended floor, chipboard with 70's insulation,  
(looks like tar paper with 1'' fibreglass stuck to the underside)
As the chipboard is in good nick (replaced a few years ago)
I want to add insulation value as I lay the floor
What's best? should I use something like this?

http://www.realoakfloors.co.uk/depron_wood_flooring_insulation.php

www dot underfloorheating-mats dot co dot uk/6mm-thick-lamfoam-underlaminate-floor-insulation-128-p.asp

Edited:
Link edited to non clickable type at request of site owner


Thanks Lads  Smiley
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« Last Edit: Sep 5th, 2013, 6:28pm by Lectrician »  
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woodsmith
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Re: Insulation
Reply #1 - Nov 4th, 2009, 7:38am
 
I haven't used either, there are no details for thermal values so they may not be very effective Undecided. Then again anything is better than nothing, and you will need some form of cushioning under the laminate.
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Re: Insulation
Reply #2 - Nov 4th, 2009, 8:28am
 
Colin will know! He'll probably get back to you when he's finished playing with the kids Scalextric. Grin
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Re: Insulation
Reply #3 - Nov 4th, 2009, 2:36pm
 
Several web sites claim the thermal conductivity (of a nominal 1 meter thickness remember) of Depron is around 0.035 W/mK. That would mean a 6mm thickness would have a U-Value of about 5.8 W/m^2K.  To put it in context the building regs for walls and floors require more like 0.2 to 0.35 ish so 6mm Depron doesn't reall add a whole lot of insulation in real terms.

Having said that if 6mm is all you can really afford to raise the floor levels then go for it. Some insulation is better than none. It would be much better to lift the boards and put 100-150mm of something else between the joists.

I look at all insulation this way...

Aerogel is the (or one of the) worlds best and most expensive insulating materials but even only that has a thermal conductivity of around 0.013 W/mK ... So you need 60mm of Aerogel if you want a U-Value of 0.2 W/m^2K. Any other type of insulation would need to be thicker to achieve 0.2 W/m^2K. Size matters as they say.

If someone out there thinks they've found a new super thin insulation (say <25mm or even <50mm) that achieves 0.2 W/m^2 then show me a test report carried out by the BRE and I'll by shares in the company  Grin  

PS. Depron is great for model aircraft..

http://www.depronfoam.co.uk/html/depron_models_gallery.html
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Re: Insulation
Reply #4 - Nov 4th, 2009, 5:31pm
 
"PS. Depron is great for model aircraft.."

See what I mean? Grin Grin
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sparky415
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Re: Insulation
Reply #5 - Nov 5th, 2009, 8:33pm
 
Thanks CW,
I guessed you would come through  Smiley
I am open to suggestions but I really don't want to lift the existing floor,
It would do no harm if the finish floor level was raised by an inch or two,
I did think of laying say an inch kingspan then chipboard then laminate,
good idea or silly idea?
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Re: Insulation
Reply #6 - Nov 6th, 2009, 8:17am
 
Quote:
I did think of laying say an inch kingspan then chipboard then laminate,


That's what I've done throughout the downstairs at my house and it has made a big difference.

25mm Kingspan with 22mm t&g chipboard, all the joints glued, vapour barrier between the chipboard and the insulation and 25mm battens round the perimeter, across doorways, and under any high load areas.  Needs an expansion gap round the perimeter too.
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Re: Insulation
Reply #7 - Nov 6th, 2009, 2:28pm
 
Officially if you upgrade more than 25% of the insulation you are meant to bring it up to modern building regs standard but we won't tell.
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sparky415
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Re: Insulation
Reply #8 - Nov 6th, 2009, 6:43pm
 
Thanks Lads,
I won't be telling anyone CW Wink

So I'm thinking of a 'kingspan' sandwich

Laminate
Some kind of underlay
Chipboard
Kingspan, and battens

Existing Chipboard
Tar paper with thin fibreglass
Joists

Woody/CW/Others
Will I need a vapour barrier as well as the underlay?
Needs an expansion gap round the perimeter ?
Is this around the new chipboard as well as the laminate?

There's no rush lads as I will be surprised if its done by Christmas Wink
Thanks again,  Smiley

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Re: Insulation
Reply #9 - Nov 6th, 2009, 7:17pm
 
If you are going to install kingspan (I assume celotex is the equiv we see down here) and a second layer of chipboard, then time and cost wise, lifting the old floor, ditching the old board, insulating between the joists and then re-boarding is not going to be too different?
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Re: Insulation
Reply #10 - Nov 6th, 2009, 10:39pm
 
sparky415 wrote on Nov 6th, 2009, 6:43pm:
Will I need a vapour barrier as well as the underlay?
Needs an expansion gap round the perimeter ?
Is this around the new chipboard as well as the laminate?



Depends on the underlay, some act as a vapour barrier and will say so in the instructions.

Its good practice to leave an expansion gap round the chipboard.

CW I didn't know that you had to bring the insulation up to current regs if you upgrade by 25%, that's crazy, what sort of deranged mind would bring in a regulation like that  Smiley
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Re: Insulation
Reply #11 - Nov 8th, 2009, 7:00pm
 
I'm going away to think about things for a while  Roll Eyes
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sparky415
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Re: Insulation
Reply #12 - Nov 11th, 2009, 7:11pm
 
I have a simple but cunning plan....  Wink
Was talking to a mate at work about floors etc,
He asked what would happen if you got a wall insulation company to fill
the void under the the floor with the kind of fibre glass they pump in to walls?
You would get damp floors I replied....
Then thought I would ask you lot again what you thought?  Undecided
Damp or a cunning plan?  Cheesy
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Re: Insulation
Reply #13 - Nov 11th, 2009, 10:49pm
 
Damp floors. You need air currents to keep everything dry.  You might like to post over in the Off-Topic section in www.ukworkshop.co.uk. There's a guy there, Mike Garnham, who is really clued up on this sort of thing.

If it was me, I'd rip up the old chipboard and put some 70mm Kingspan sandwiched and then foamed - in between the joists.  You don't have any open fires in the room, I'm assuming.
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Re: Insulation
Reply #14 - Nov 12th, 2009, 10:25pm
 
Been thinking about this a bit more. Why can't you get a circular saw and set the blade depth to a smidgeon off of the depth of the chipboard.  Then run the saw down the middle of a joist.  Have you got a Fein? Finish the cut with that ...or you could set the depth of the circular saw to be just past the depth of the chiboard cut it all the way through.  Then you might be able to lift up whole sheets of chipboard.
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Re: Insulation
Reply #15 - Nov 13th, 2009, 7:35am
 
londonman wrote on Nov 12th, 2009, 10:25pm:
Been thinking about this a bit more. Why can't you get a circular saw and set the blade depth to a smidgeon off of the depth of the chipboard.  Then run the saw down the middle of a joist.  Have you got a Fein? Finish the cut with that ...or you could set the depth of the circular saw to be just past the depth of the chiboard cut it all the way through.  Then you might be able to lift up whole sheets of chipboard.


Chipboard comes up relatively easily by cutting part through as you suggest but not along the joists, thats where the nails are!
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Re: Insulation
Reply #16 - Nov 13th, 2009, 12:09pm
 
woodsmith wrote on Nov 13th, 2009, 7:35am:
londonman wrote on Nov 12th, 2009, 10:25pm:
Been thinking about this a bit more. Why can't you get a circular saw and set the blade depth to a smidgeon off of the depth of the chipboard.  Then run the saw down the middle of a joist.  Have you got a Fein? Finish the cut with that ...or you could set the depth of the circular saw to be just past the depth of the chiboard cut it all the way through.  Then you might be able to lift up whole sheets of chipboard.


Chipboard comes up relatively easily by cutting part through as you suggest but not along the joists, thats where the nails are!


But not all over the joist surely? Mind you, if he has one of those Evolution saws then it doesn't matter about the nails. Wink
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