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No overflow on toilet cistern? (Read 19068 times)
jazzyman
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No overflow on toilet cistern?
Dec 23rd, 2014, 12:05am
 
I had a replacement toilet cistern fitted last year (housing association) property. I remember the person that fitted the cistern saying that there were no overflows on new toilets.
I had to remove the cistern lid the other day and I cannot find any indication of any type of internal overflow, I even overfilled the the cistern up with water just below the blanked off overflow outlet hole, there was no sign of any water overflowing down the pan etc..

How do you check if the cistern is fitted with an internal overflow?
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CWatters
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #1 - Dec 26th, 2014, 9:38pm
 
It depends on the type of flush valve.  With many modern valves the water goes down through the centre of the flush valve which is a hollow tube. For example..

http://cdn.toolstation.com/images/141020-UK/250/86200.jpg
or

Otherwise if it's a syphon type the water rises until it "goes over the syphon" pipe as it does when flushed..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4syY1onCp4

If that doesn't help can you post a picture or a link to one that looks similar? Try google images.

The internal overflow should work before water overflows the cistern so perhaps test it by filling the cistern slowly with a jug.  EDIT: Oops I see you've tried that.
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #2 - Dec 28th, 2014, 4:09pm
 
a pic of the inside of the cistern would help
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jazzyman
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #3 - Jan 3rd, 2015, 5:51pm
 
Toilet valve is a Dudley Cascade FTS7B

...

...
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #4 - Jan 4th, 2015, 4:10pm
 
The S7 is not a Dual, or internal over flow syphon, according to Dudley's web site:

Just a basic "BOG" standard syphon...
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #5 - Jan 4th, 2015, 6:36pm
 
If the water level rises too much doesn't it just flow over the syphon? or is the syphon too high?

See bottom of page 30...
http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/wcsstore7.00.00.168/ExtendedSitesCatalogAssetStore/...

and top of page 6..
http://www.masefield-beta.co.uk/assets/files/pdfs/ME-Catalogue-web.pdf

Quote:
Any syphon is capable of acting as an 'Overflow', as long as the cistern wall is higher than the total height of the installed syphon.(Any holes in cistern walls should be higher than the syphon or should be sealed with a suitable stopper)
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jazzyman
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #6 - Jan 8th, 2015, 10:55pm
 
CWatters wrote on Jan 4th, 2015, 6:36pm:
If the water level rises too much doesn't it just flow over the syphon? or is the syphon too high?


Looks like the syphon is to high. I filled the tank more or less to the very top and then the overflow worked, draining back to the pan, the problem then water was leaking from the overflow blanking plate.  I measured the hight of the syphon valve and it's approximately 9", so I guess this is to high. Another picture below.

...
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« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2015, 7:35pm by Lectrician »  
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #7 - Jan 9th, 2015, 12:16pm
 
Best replace the flush valve. There are several types of slush valve that have an adjustable overflow level. Just check they go low enough for your max water level. One Example..

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p51299

or perhaps seal the over flow blanking plate better?


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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #8 - Jan 14th, 2015, 6:27pm
 
In the end I decided to replace the toilet cistern complete with a new syphon valve, because there were condensation issues with the old cistern.

I used a Dudley Tri-Shell cistern which came with a Dudley Turbo 88R syphon valve.  However, I have the same problem the  internal overflow comes into operation when the cistern is full more or less to the top. I contacted Dudley and they said a 7.5" syphon valve should be fitted. How do you measure a syphon valve?

The new valve is pictured below, is this a 7.5" or a 9.5"?

...
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #9 - Jan 14th, 2015, 10:03pm
 
reconnect the overflow pipe. or buy a flapper type flush valve.

The pic show a 10" siphon
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #10 - Jan 14th, 2015, 11:48pm
 
Dudley are insisting that the siphon that I have is a 7.5", also found a mark on the syphon indicating that it is a 191mm, which is 7.5".

How are siphons measured?
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #11 - Jan 15th, 2015, 10:14am
 
From the flange at the bottom to the seam at the top
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Re: No overflow on toilet cistern?
Reply #12 - Jan 18th, 2015, 11:47am
 
Is there a code on the packaging? See table..

http://www.thomasdudley.co.uk/bathroom/cistern-components/turbo-88-syphon.html

The internal overflow should start when water reaches the red line I've added. However if the water pressure is very high and the flow rate into the cistern is very high the water level can rise higher.

Spill over level
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