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A strange situation ... (Read 33162 times)
rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #17 - Dec 9th, 2015, 10:25am
 
It is the cold supply to the house, excepting the kitchen sink, which is mains-fed cold. Therefore it supplies all cold taps and toilets, passing down through the airing cupboard and then beneath the floor, where it tees off to its various outlets.

There is no vibration in, or caused by, the mains feed. It may be "swinging about in the breeze" but the (new) tank valve is not the cause of the vibration - I thought that I had established that yesterday by depressing the valve as suggested, which made no difference. You may notice that there is an isolating lever on the mains feed. The vibration continues with that closed.

The vibration continues even with the mains shut off (at the stop cock or at the meter), which seems to me to rule out any problem with the jumper (if any) in the stop cock. For my money, this seems to support the fact that the vibration is caused by something within the tank-fed cold water system, but you already say that this is not possible.

I can only re-iterate that this is where the vibration is coming from.

Ray
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thescruff
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #18 - Dec 9th, 2015, 4:08pm
 
Lets reword it slightly. I've never seen or heard of a tank cold supply vibrating, other than from an external source in the 57 years since I started in the trade.

If the tank cold feed is vibrating then something is causing it, so we need to look at the pipe and fittings.

How far can you trace it.

Is there to your knowledge any fittings that maybe unusual.

Is there a check valve on the pipe anywhere.

Is the water in the tank clean and no signs of a backflow.

Is the pipe the cold supply to all the outlets or the cylinder.

How far from Bath are you.

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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #19 - Dec 9th, 2015, 9:10pm
 
Could you clarify what a check valve is, please? The pipe feeds the cold taps, toilets and bath. The indirect has its own feed. There is probably 10 metres of pipe to the bath. I can trace most of the upper floor, hardly any of the downstairs, due to layout of the house.

Ray
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thescruff
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #20 - Dec 10th, 2015, 10:23am
 
http://www.screwfix.com/search?search=non+return+valve

Some are built in (quality mixer taps) for example, others are separate
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Lurch
Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #21 - Dec 10th, 2015, 6:46pm
 
I had a similar situation recently, but the vibrating was happening when the taps were on. It appeared that there was air being drawn in through the vent pipe so I lifted the vent up higher and that solved it.

Could well be that air is being drawn in when your taps are on and the vibrating is the air trying to work its way back up again. Not sure how or why as I wouldn't expect there to be a vent on the cold feeds from the tank, but who knows what happens over the years under floorboards and what may be cross connected where. Could also be a dead leg somewhere full of air causing the same effect.

Does the vibrating ever stop of its own accord?
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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #22 - Dec 10th, 2015, 8:42pm
 
I believe that it does sometimes stop of its own accord, but - to be honest - I crack open a tank-fed cold tap to stop the noise, as it's so annoying. I'm not saying it's very loud, but it's insistent and the vibration is worrying in case it affects joints in the system.

Ray
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #23 - Dec 11th, 2015, 9:05am
 
When you crack open a cold tap to stop the noise, how long before the noise comes back.
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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #24 - Dec 11th, 2015, 1:01pm
 
Immediately I close it, most of the time, especially at night, which is why I leave one cracked open. The noise also stops if I depress any of the toilet ball cocks, but it would as they're off the same supply.

Once water is drawn from the tank (and, therefore, lowering the level, I suppose), the noise goes away and often for several hours, but rarely more than a day, once all taps are closed. There's a gate valve on the downpipes for the cold supply from the tank, but shutting that makes no difference either (although I accept they're notorious for letting by).

Ray
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #25 - Dec 13th, 2015, 3:46pm
 
Can you record the noise and post on your blog
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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #26 - Dec 13th, 2015, 5:00pm
 
I'll do my best!
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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #27 - Dec 14th, 2015, 8:47pm
 
I've made a short clip and up-loaded it to www.raygirling.com/loftpics as before. It works OK in Firefox and Opera, but Microsoft Edge and Safari don't like it.

Ray
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #28 - Dec 14th, 2015, 10:55pm
 
I don't like Microsoft edge anyway.

That sounds like and external pumo type vibration.

Can we go down a floor and post some pics of the cylinder connections not too close the more you can  get in, in one pic the better.

How big is the system,

Is there a secondary circuit on the hot water.

Post as much details as you about the system relvant or not.
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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #29 - Dec 15th, 2015, 11:55am
 
I've taken pictures and posted them, as requested.

Ray
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Lurch
Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #30 - Dec 15th, 2015, 11:43pm
 
If it goes all night and it is a pump causing it then something is adrift as there wouldn't usually be anything running 24/7. Can you turn off the power to anything to narrow it down, heating circuit/boiler/shower pumps etc?
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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #31 - Dec 16th, 2015, 12:55am
 
The CH is fully pumped, the shower has its own integral pump and that's it as far as pumps go. The CH pump and MVs are in the airing cupboard. Next time it happens, I'll try switching off the CH system entirely.

Ray
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #32 - Dec 16th, 2015, 9:14am
 
Don't think its the heating pump as it wouldn't stop when you open a tap, still worth checking though, it could be the shower pump not turning off and maybe running dry or static.

What colour is the expansion vessel and approx age ??
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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #33 - Dec 16th, 2015, 5:23pm
 
The shower pump is a low-voltage integral in an Aqualisa Aquastream shower. It shuts off with the flow.

The vessel is a red Zilmet 4 bar - see pictures below (which also show the layout):

...

...

Ray
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