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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Electrical Questions >> which new electric heating system https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1323726110 Message started by lucylocket222 on Dec 12^th, 2011, 9:41pm

Title: which new electric heating system
Post by lucylocket222 on Dec 12^th, 2011, 9:41pm

Hi can anybody help and advise me. Ihave just bought an ex council flat that has old storage heaters in. As I want my daughter to use the flat I want to try and get the cheapest electric heating system there is on the market. There is no gas into the building so I have to use electric. Can you please advise me as I am new to this. Lucylocket

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by Lectrician on Dec 12^th, 2011, 9:59pm

Storage heaters, while appearing outdated, are the cheapest form electrical heating for the main living spaces, supplemented with electric panel convector heaters in the bedrooms, and perhaps an electric towel rail, downflow heater or underfloor heating in the bathroom.

Storage heaters should be used in conjuction with an economy 7 type tarriff which provides cheap electricity during the night. This would also be utilised to heat a tank of water too - A tank with two immersions, one at the bottom connected to the off peak supply, and the top element used as a boost, connected to the 24hr peak supply.

There are also electric flow boilers which are plumbed in a traditional way with standard radiators. Their warm up time is not great. They need to be used with an economy 10 type tarrif.

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by CWatters on Dec 13^th, 2011, 8:31am

What he said.

All regular electric heaters are 100% efficient. They all turn all the electricity into heat. Don't believe any of the hype from advertisers that claim their special electric heaters are somehow "more efficient". Unfortunately electricity is much more expensive than gas or even oil. Standard rate daytime electricity (as used by a fan heater or oil filled electric rad) can be three times the cost of gas.

Storage heaters on E7 are still likely to be your best option but two other things worth mentioning even if not applicable...

Air sourced heat pumps: These use electricity to take heat energy from the air outside, concentrate it and move it inside. Bit like an air conditioning unit in reverse. Because the main heat source is outside air these can have electrical efficiencies of 300-400% so in the right set up they can be a lot cheaper to run than any other form of electric heating (and be comparable to gas heating). However they are expensive to buy. They also work best with wet UFH or low temperature (eg large) rads in well insulated houses. In the wrong house or incorrectly set up the efficiency can fall dramatically and make them expensive to run. The fan unit that goes outside can also be a little noisy so perhaps not best suited to a flat unless perhaps it's a ground floor flat in a converted house.

Solar PV: A number of companies were offering free solar PV panels under a "rent a roof" scheme. In return for allowing a company to put solar panels on your roof you get some free electricity. The company gets the subsidy from the energy companies which is how they make money. However the government recently reduced the subsidy by a half so it's not clear if these schemes will continue. In the UK solar PV won't provide anything like enough free electricity to heat a house but every little helps. Obviously this would only be applicable if she owned the roof.

Obviously if using electric heating you would be a high user and it would be essential to shop around for the best tarrif regularly.

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by wozzy on Dec 13^th, 2011, 7:44pm

I agree with what has been said, Ive never installed them but people with rointe type heaters seem to love them. They must cost more for the same amount of heat, but people may need less due to the control they offer. That said it would be duo heat storage heaters for me in a all electric home.

Ive worked on (controls) a Heatre Sadia Electromax boiler, customer seemed to like it.

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by TIMBA-WOLF on Dec 13^th, 2011, 10:00pm

for non eco 7 heating these are the bees knees, just installed one in my new office, 1kw, and is working out about 20-30% cheaper to run than standard leccy heating, and they lump in the controller/programmer for the same money (unlike some other brands....) well chuffed with it!!

http://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/1744613-1000w-dynamic-radiator-c-w-7-day-timer

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by lucylocket222 on Dec 13^th, 2011, 10:46pm

Hi Thank you for your replies. I think I might go with new storage heaters although I am still a little confused because the CEF heaters you say are cheaper and they look like economy radiators type heaters. I asked Economy Radiators if I could speak to one of their customers but they wouldn't let me saying they cannot give out confidential information which I understand so I asked them if one of their customers could contact me and they still said no so I am not going to risk going down that route. The CEF heaters look like Economy Radiators though. How do I know when I am on a forum and somebody recommends a particular make whether they do or don't own the company? Sorry if I am being wary but I am a female and don't want to make the wrong decision because I don't understand electrics.

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by scotspark on Dec 13^th, 2011, 11:38pm

Hi

I can echo most of the comments above and assure you that all the contributors so far have no vested interest in any heating company.

the dimplex duoheat radiators take both a off peak and a 24hr supply but I have had favorable responses from the ones i have fitted

http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/installed_heating/duoheat_radiator.htm

SS

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by CWatters on Dec 15^th, 2011, 8:28am

I find it very hard to believe the claims Economy Rads make here can be justified..
http://www.economy-radiators.com/affordable-electric-heating.html
..particularly.. "lower running costs than oil and on a par with Gas".

There is an energy cost comparison here...

http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison

The figures that matter are the "Pence per kWh (after boiler efficiency)"

Electric 13.9p/kWH
Kerosene/oil 7.09p/kWH
Gas 4.95p/kWH

So standard day electic costs nearly three times as much to run than mains gas per unit even after taking into account that gas boilers aren't quite as efficient (90%) compared to an electric rad (100%).

Note this does not take into acount E7 but applies to any electric rad or fan heater that is designed to maintain the air temperature in a room.

Even ASHP systems (that they assume are 250% efficient) are still more expensive to run than mains gas.

Also worth noting that Which recommend storage heaters..

http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-saving-home/guides/home-heating-systems/electric-central-heating/

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by CWatters on Dec 15^th, 2011, 8:55am

Regarding Rointe...

http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2011/1/Rointe/TF_ADJ_49624.aspx

Quote:

Two complainants, one of whom was an electrician, thought the claim "60% ENERGY SAVING" for the digital electric radiator in ad (a) was misleading and could not be substantiated.

Quote:

1. Upheld

The ASA considered that readers would expect the claim "60% ENERGY SAVING" for the digital electric radiator to be based on the results of tests. Rointe had sent no tests or any other documentary evidence to substantiate the claim. We also considered that the basis of the comparison was unclear from the ad: it was not clear whether Rointe were claiming that the digital electric radiator provided a 60% energy saving compared with a boiler, panel heater, storage heater and convector, or whether Rointe were claiming a 60% energy saving for their product compared with other electric radiators. We concluded that the claim "60% ENERGY SAVING" for the digital electric radiator was unsubstantiated and misleading.

Quote:

We told Rointe to remove the claim "60% ENERGY SAVING" for the digital electric radiator

See what you make of this from their website..

http://www.rointe.co.uk/radiator-k-series.html

Quote:

In the K Series radiator test, made in an independent laboratory, we used a 1,430W model to simulate the heating of a 12 m2 room with the thermostat set to 21ºC. The average power needed during the test was 560W, which represents a 40% of the nominal power. That is what we define as the equivalent ratio of consumption...

Some people might think that somehow implies a 60% saving/reduction but that's would be a totally incorrect interpretation.

All that data tells you is the test room needs 560W to maintain 21C. I would expect the running cost per hour using the Nots University data to be approx:

Electric 7.8p/H
Kerosene/oil 3.8p/H
Gas 2.7p/H

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by big_all on Dec 15^th, 2011, 9:03am

the only time an electric heater can be as efficient as gas is by decieving by massaging the figures as in when you turn the boiler on until the water reaches room temperature you have a zero % room heating so by that logic electric can be 100000% more efficient than gas for a few seconds

and by the same logic once you turn the heating off gas is 100000% more efficient as it gives out heat for no cost as the radiator cools down

"FACT" cheap to run low cost means low output not enough heat

the only way you get cheap electricity is off peak rates but usually costing you more for your day time rates when you need them most

WOW they even defy the laws physics ::) ::)

Quote:

The heat is radiated into the room giving an even temperature from floor to ceiling, thus avoiding the draw backs of lesser systems which may rely on convection and deliver a huge variance leading to "cold feet syndrome".

"FACT" hot air rises a room will warm from the ceiling down so ceiling at say 23 degrees floor at 19 degrees dependant on how still the air is

Title: Re: which new electric heating system
Post by jaytee-ren on Jan 22^nd, 2017, 3:39pm

Rointe
Unfortunately we read the Rointe website and believed their write up on what a wonderful product they were selling. We purchased a full system for a newly renovated house we wanted to resell, we had a new EPC carried out only for it to be at a lower level than the old broken Parkray system we took out, we queried this with the EPC engineer who ran the checks again and confirmed it was correct and the best way of increasing the EPC was to rip out the Rointe system and fit either Storage heaters or have an oil fired system fitted. There is no gas available except LPG. So we had just spent thousands of pounds having this Rointe system to be fitted to be told it was classified as Panel heaters on the EPC. Rointe do not advertise that their systems are no better than a Panel heater or it can reduce the EPC, I think they should be made to make the General public aware of this so other people know what they are buying. Hope this help with anyone thinking of purchasing their heating products.