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Jul 11th, 2020, 9:54pm
Quote: There are two theories to arguing with women. Trust me, neither one works.


1  DIY Forum / DIY - Building Questions / Re: Replacing staircase timber vertical support with s
 on: Jul 3rd, 2020, 11:20am 
Started by a413982567 | Post by CWatters  
Its also not just about the vertical load. A thin metal tube might be strong enough to take the vertical load but could buckle if a kid swings on it creating a horizontal load.

2  DIY Forum / DIY - Building Questions / Re: Replacing staircase timber vertical support with s
 on: Jul 2nd, 2020, 7:42am 
Started by a413982567 | Post by woodsmith  
A change like this would need building approval from the local planning department. They will want calculations from a structural engineer who will be able to work out exactly what you need to do. Bear in mind though that they will want this to be made fire resistant, as steel is not as good as wood in a fire. There are special paints available which may be acceptable otherwise you would need to box it in with fire resistant material.

3  DIY Forum / DIY - Building Questions / Replacing staircase timber vertical support with s
 on: Jul 1st, 2020, 10:48am 
Started by a413982567 | Post by a413982567  
Hi

On the middle floor in my townhouse, the staircase to the upper floor is supported with a timber 170mm x 70mm x 2500mm

I am renovating the entire house and the handrails will be steel; I'd like to replace the support with a steel one - it will be slimmer and match the ironmongery.

Can anyone tell me:
- How to calculate the load (that the timber can bear)
- What the equivalent steel CHS would need to be

Thanks in advance

4  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 16th, 2020, 11:52pm 
Started by londonman | Post by thescruff  
My assumptions are perfectly correct, yes the cylinder is fed from the tank in the loft via the pipe with the red valve, guess as there's not another valve it could be.

anyway let's hope you have it sorted

5  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 16th, 2020, 4:44pm 
Started by londonman | Post by londonman  
You're making assumptions that are incorrect.  For example, the cylinder is fed from a cold tank in the loft.  Historic reasons.

Anyway problem solved.  Hans Grohe are supposed to have fitted backflow preventers inside the shower controller.  They are missing and so they are sending me a set.

6  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 16th, 2020, 1:21pm 
Started by londonman | Post by thescruff  
Which is why I asked for more information.

what is the make and model of the pumps.

could still do with an as fitted drawing.

After you turn the shower off, what happens if you turn the power off to the pump, count to 10 and turn it back on again, I get the impression the pump wasn't running before you had a shower so why should it run after you have had a shower.

Have you installed the iBox the right way round, are you using the top or bottom outlets or both,

which model iBox is it and what controller.

ps, don't fit the check valve yet,
where were you thinking of putting it.

You do realize the controller can have a backflow.

The red valve is the cold feed to the cylinder, is anything else connected to it.

My problem with the install.
Hot pump is fed from the cylinder, and the cylinder is fed from the pipe with the red valve, therefore the pump is sucking out of the cylinder and the cold feed.

It cannot suck and blow the same pipe.

How can you pressurise an open vented system.


7  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 15th, 2020, 6:12pm 
Started by londonman | Post by londonman  
Good point.  The double-check valve arrives tomorrow which should sort it out.  I say 'should'.

I have four separate plumbed areas in the house - each fed from a manifold via a gatevalve. manifold

The one on the extreme right is feeding the ensuite in question.  There are three 'outlets'...the WC, handbasin and the Hans Grohe shower control.  

So just to recap...all works in the ensuite until I come to turn the shower off.  The shower stops flowing but the hot water pump still keeps running. If I turn off the cold gate valve (extreme right in picture) then the h/w pump stops.  If I turn off the Hans Grohe temperature to its coldest then that (sometimes) will also have the same result.  

So this evening I thought...if my theory is correct then if I adjust the Hans Grohe temperature control to, say, mid-point, turn off that gate valve then if I flush the WC then the H/W pump should kick in ...but it doesn't !

I really have no idea now what's going on !   AllI know is that I have no leaks !


8  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 15th, 2020, 10:39am 
Started by londonman | Post by thescruff  
High-risk Legionella.

9  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 14th, 2020, 10:07pm 
Started by londonman | Post by londonman  
Well, I'm not an expert on pumps.  You're right in that if one pump is running then the water must be going somewhere.  My conclusion is that it's flowing back through the cold water pump into the clean tanks.  Cos there isn't any leak anywhere.

Because you mentioned that the pump should be protected by a double-check valve (it isn't...none of them are..we have five....all here before I came) then it must be feasible for water to be forced back through a pump.

10  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 14th, 2020, 10:58am 
Started by londonman | Post by thescruff  
If you say so lol.

So one or more pumps is not turning off?

Where is the water going?

11  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 13th, 2020, 9:54pm 
Started by londonman | Post by londonman  
I can assure you that the only design fault is the Hans Grohe iBox.  The rest of the house has a multitude of mixer taps, thermostatic shower controls etc.  All work perfectly well.  When you turn them off, they do turn off.  Cold and hot both pressurise up and the pumps stop.

The i Box has no such luxury.  The only on/off is on the output of the mixer.  So hot and cold circuits commune together quite happily because they are nit turned off.  I can understand that the iBox will work perfectly well if it's installed in a house with, say, a twin Stuart Turner pump because both hot and cold will be of equal pressure...more or less.

But if there is an imbalance between the two of sufficient magnitude then whichever circuit has the higher pressure will force back into the other.

It's simply a duff design and I'm surprised that Hans Grohe have designed it this way.

12  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 13th, 2020, 9:38pm 
Started by londonman | Post by thescruff  
System Design fault, usually a secondary circuit.

If either or both pumps are not pressurizing you have an open circuit, so the first task is to find where the water is going other than around and around.

Both pumps should be protected by double check valves.

Ideal world an as fitting drawing, please.

13  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / When OFF doesn't mean OFF.....
 on: Jun 13th, 2020, 7:16am 
Started by londonman | Post by londonman  
...or why a Hans Grohe iBox is such a silly design.

So, you learn something new every day.  Fitting a new ensuite as part of the whole house refurb.

Finally, all systems go. Time for a shower.  

Scenario...our house has two separate pumps for cold and hot water.   The cold pump (historic) is in the cellar.  The hot water pump is new and installed upstairs next to the HW cylinder.  I can hear it when it kicks in and once the hot water is pressurised, it stops.

So into t'shower, turn it on (separate control) and wallow. Have shower.  Turn it off.  Only ....only ..

only the H/W pump does not stop. Thinks...this should not be happening. I've tested it before it was all tiled up.  There are no leaks. It should not be doing this. Switch off the H/W feed to the ensuite at the manifold.  Pump stops.  Sh*t. I must have a leak somewhere.  I have an inspection hatch.  No leak.  WTF ?

Engage brain. Where can it be pumping to?  'cos it is - otherwise it would pressurise up and stop.

Back up the cold water feed ?  Surely not ?  Switch off cold feed at the manifold and the H/W pump stops.

And that is when I realised that OFF on this Hans Grohe cock-a-mamie iBox is only off as far as the shower head is concerned.  Both cold and hot feeds remain 'live' relative to each other and so if there is an imbalance in pressure then one pumps into the other.  The 'fix' is to turn off the temp control on the iBox but what a faff...annoying, to be sure....but even then there is still a slight bleed of water through back into the cold water pipes and so the H/W pump kicks in...on and off.

I think a checkvalve in the cold feed will sort it.

14  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 7th, 2020, 10:38pm 
Started by Custard | Post by Custard  
OK - will do - thanks again!

15  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 7th, 2020, 7:10pm 
Started by Custard | Post by thescruff  
A good chance the string will do the job, as I said don't overdo it though.

If you wanted to try it first wind it around about 4 times under the O ring, and see what it does.

16  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 7th, 2020, 10:19am 
Started by Custard | Post by Custard  
Thanks Thescruff for your advice. I had already ordered the Locktight string from your previous post (coincidentally from Bearing King too!)

Since it's such a tiny leak, do you think the string will hold OK or is it crucial to go to the expense of getting a pro to drain down system/replace the TRV etc?

17  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 6th, 2020, 8:45pm 
Started by Custard | Post by thescruff  
It looks like you have 2 O rings seals 1 on the shaft and 1 in the white cap.

Get the small loctite 55 string and follow the instructions on the thread of the white cap, do not put too much one 3-4 turns should be plenty.

You can buy it at most builders and diy outlets.

https://www.bearing-king.co.uk/bearing/loctite-55-pipe-sealing-cord-50m/9058?gcl...

18  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 6th, 2020, 3:11pm 
Started by Custard | Post by Custard  
Thank you for the reply. I'm not too sure I feel confident to drain down the system. I think that might be better left to the pros when they let them out of lock-down. So the Locktight thread string might be a temporary solution until then - thanks for the tip.

I did completely remove the plastic nut as you can see balanced to the left on the pipe in the image below. I don't quite get the mechanism but absolutely no water comes out when it's like this. I guess the valve is shut when it's like this?


Image 3

19  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 6th, 2020, 12:15am 
Started by Custard | Post by thescruff  
The only way you could possibly stop that is to loosen the nut a couple of turns and wind a couple of wraps of Loctite 55 string under the nut and tighten it back up

Don't overdo it and remember the system is live so all sorts of things could go wrong.

Get the small loctite 55 string and store it in a cool place for future use.

The best plan is still to drain it out.

20  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 5th, 2020, 1:36pm 
Started by Custard | Post by Custard  
Apologies, I might not have been clear. The water is coming from between the white plastic item and the brass hex nut. On the image I have indicated a VERY tiny droplet (you may have to click on it to make it larger to see) that forms on the ledge of the protruding triangular bit of the hex nut.

I unscrewed the white bit, cleaned up the rubber grommet inside and the top of the brass hex nut but wonder if a bit of something applied between the two surfaces might help (silicon? jointing compound - no?). There is no branding or make on the valve I'm afraid.

Thank you again

Image 2



21  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 4th, 2020, 8:35pm 
Started by Custard | Post by thescruff  
The pin will have an o-ring washer that seals it so not sure what the white part does, (Is there a make model on the valve) jointing compound would not work, it's used for sealing the connection with Olives, etc, instead of fitting them dry and then having leaks, which 9/10 plumbers tend to get. To drain it down you'll need to isolate the boiler 1st and the last pipe for heating then drain the radiators using a hosepipe on the draincocks assuming you have them at low points.

22  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 4th, 2020, 2:28pm 
Started by Custard | Post by Custard  
Thanks Thescruff – it's kind of you to take the trouble to reply.

I don't know how to drain the system (I do know how to re-pressurise the boiler for what that's worth). The boiler is an Ideal Independent C24 – probably 6 or 7 years old at a guess as it came with the flat.

I slackened off the white nut that's part of the pin valve and then re-tightened it and it leaks less now. Maybe a bead of water every hour or so now. Hard to tell if it's the pin or the nut that's letting the water out. Before I saw your post, I closed the lockshield as I figured it would do no harm (I hope).

Can you replace just the 'pin' element of the valve to fix such a leak?

*Quick update:* I've been monitoring it all day and I'm pretty sure the water is coming from between the white plastic 'pin' component and the brass nut – as the 'pin' itself always seems to be dry. If I cleaned the two opposing surfaces and applied jointing compound maybe?

23  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Re: Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 3rd, 2020, 9:26pm 
Started by Custard | Post by thescruff  
Hi,

No, turning off the lockshield valve is unlikely to keep you dry, as you'll need to drain the boiler/system and I would suggest replacing the valve if it's leaking around the pin.
I strongly suggest you buy yourself to a small tin of jointing compound and smear a small bit around the olives before you put it back and do the nuts up.
What are the boiler make/model and rough age?
Do you know how to refill the system and top the pressure up before you start?

24  DIY Forum / DIY - Plumbing Questions / Thermostatic Valve Leak
 on: Jun 3rd, 2020, 3:41pm 
Started by Custard | Post by Custard  
Hello – I have a small leak in my thermostatic radiator valve. I have cautiously tightened the two nuts shown in the image where the leak is coming from (i.e. the white one and the brass one with the green oxide coating) by about a quarter turn. It still leaks. What would you advise?

Would closing off the lockshield valve at the other end temporarily halt the leak whilst I repair it?

My heating system is a combi boiler.

Many thanks in advance people!


25  DIY Forum / DIY - Painting, Decorating & Tiling Questions / Re: Remove bitumen before tileing
 on: May 27th, 2020, 2:35pm 
Started by TrevorP | Post by TrevorP  
Good point, am using a Bal adhesive so will try and contact them and see what they suggest. Thanks for help.

26  DIY Forum / DIY - Painting, Decorating & Tiling Questions / Re: Remove bitumen before tileing
 on: May 27th, 2020, 7:39am 
Started by TrevorP | Post by woodsmith  
There should be an advice line number for the adhesive you intend to use , I would give them a call and see what they recommend.

27  DIY Forum / DIY - Painting, Decorating & Tiling Questions / Re: Remove bitumen before tileing
 on: May 26th, 2020, 8:56pm 
Started by TrevorP | Post by thescruff  
I've seen them use a floor leveling compound before is suppose the would depend on levels as well.

Couple of the others should comment when they log on next.

28  DIY Forum / DIY - Painting, Decorating & Tiling Questions / Re: Remove bitumen before tileing
 on: May 26th, 2020, 8:31pm 
Started by TrevorP | Post by TrevorP  
Thanks for reply, they are a porcelain tile, I have used in our kitchen over the asphalt floor using an adhesive for asphalt. Would like to continue into our hallway just not sure about it sticking to the dry’d bitumen from the parquet.
Scrapping does remove quite a bit, just not sure it’s enough.

29  DIY Forum / DIY - Painting, Decorating & Tiling Questions / Re: Remove bitumen before tileing
 on: May 25th, 2020, 10:31pm 
Started by TrevorP | Post by thescruff  
Pretty sure you can tile over the bitumen with the normal cement based adhesive or lay a leveling compound over the top first.

See what the others have to say first.

What tiles are you actually using?

30  DIY Forum / DIY - Painting, Decorating & Tiling Questions / Remove bitumen before tileing
 on: May 24th, 2020, 12:25pm 
Started by TrevorP | Post by TrevorP  
Hi, am about to lift parquet tiles and tile hallway. Have lifted quite a few as they come up really easy, the bitumen use to stick these down is quite hard and not sticky. The bitumen is layer over an ashphalt dpc, I can get an adhesive for ashphalt to lay the tiles, but am not sure about the bitumen?
Would it be ok to try and scrap off as much as poss, or do I need to get all of to a really clean surface?
Any advice appreciated thanks
Trevor