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unswitched sockets (Read 6043 times)
LSpark
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #16 - Nov 20th, 2004, 12:09am
 
[quote author=ban-all-sheds  link=1100734083/0#14 date=1100894775]
Is it a loose-leaf one?
[/quote]

Nope, otherwise probably would have just updated that rather than replace the book  Roll Eyes

Actualy I did amend the book but for various reasons the brown book was aquired  Smiley
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rabbit_rabbit
Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #15 - Nov 19th, 2004, 8:18pm
 
Switching the MCB/pulling the fuse, switching the main isolator or pulling the main 60A/100A fuse sure does isolate the circuit.

Agree with Chubbs contribution.

RR
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ban-all-sheds
Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #14 - Nov 19th, 2004, 8:06pm
 
[quote author=L.Spark  link=1100734083/0#13 date=1100869916]It is in there plugwash, and yea I offered up my blue book for nothing to mr PW, but was no intrest beanzy lol Roll Eyes Grin [/quote]
Is it a loose-leaf one?
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LSpark
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #13 - Nov 19th, 2004, 1:11pm
 
It is in there plugwash, and yea I offered up my blue book for nothing to mr PW, but was no intrest beanzy lol Roll Eyes Grin
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« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2004, 1:12pm by LSpark »  
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Beanzy
Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #12 - Nov 19th, 2004, 6:47am
 
Shocked Plug! why don't you have the regs? They'd be handy for quoting. Cheesy

ANyway 537-04 isn't relevant to normal isolation proceedures. The whole section is about devices for emergency switching, so he's been quoting out of context.

For any additional requirements for functional switching he needs to look at 537-05. In this he'll see that 537-05-04 makes him look like a plonker.  And no I'm not quoting it here....... get the book!

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well ok just the once mind you, I don't want you to think I'm going soft or anything;

537-05-04 A plug and socket-outlet of rating not exceeding 16 A may be used as a switching device.



Now buy the bleedin book!   Grin
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plugwash
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #11 - Nov 19th, 2004, 2:11am
 
any chance someone could quote me 537-04? i want to know if that "not a plug and socket" is part of the reg or an addition by this guy
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LSpark
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #10 - Nov 18th, 2004, 9:47pm
 
[quote author=supersparky  link=1100734083/0#3 date=1100790969]pulling the plug isnt isolation
its disconnection

ss [/quote]

Quote:
537-02-10  
A plug and socket-outlet or similar device may be used as a means of isolation.


We all make mistakes  Smiley
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supersparky
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #9 - Nov 18th, 2004, 9:36pm
 
there ya go then
thanks cpw  Roll Eyes

ss
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ChubbyPhaseWire
Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #8 - Nov 18th, 2004, 9:32pm
 


537-02-10
A plug and socket-outlet or similar device may be used as a means of isolation. Wink
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LSpark
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #7 - Nov 18th, 2004, 9:08pm
 
[quote author=supersparky  link=1100734083/0#5 date=1100794989]very supprised but fair enough
theres probrably something in the regs that contradicts that.blodey regs
wheres CPW?

ss
[/quote]
Yea tell me about it, im bored already and I hate to have to disagree about pointless things like this..

Don't see what the fascination is plugwash, although I understand you have that website that you want to contribute too and make accurate the information.. Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2004, 9:09pm by LSpark »  
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #6 - Nov 18th, 2004, 4:28pm
 
the guy who made the orignal edit has given the following justification

Quote:
Don't know about online source but section 537-04 of BS 7671 requires a 'means of means of interrupting the supply for the purpose of emergency switching' , 'not a plug and socket-outlet' which must 'be installed in a readily accessible position where the hazard might occur'. --Ali@gwc.org.uk 15:08, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

is he taking a reg out of context here and can someone provide details of what that reg actually says and what context it is in

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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #5 - Nov 18th, 2004, 4:23pm
 
very supprised but fair enough
theres probrably something in the regs that contradicts that.blodey regs
wheres CPW?

ss
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LSpark
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #4 - Nov 18th, 2004, 3:56pm
 
[quote author=supersparky  link=1100734083/0#3 date=1100790969]pulling the plug isnt isolation
its disconnection

ss [/quote]


Sorry mate I disagree..

Quote:
1.      Isolation Type of Switch designed to interrupt the flow of power in order to carry out work on the installation (CCU)
2.      Emergency Type of switch designed to interrupt the supply for emergency purposes (Red stop buttons, fireman switch)
3.      Mechanical maintenance Type of switch designed to isolate the supply when work is carried out by non-technical staff (lamp replacement etc.)
4.      Functional Type of switching designed to control current using equipment, e.g. light switch

It is possible for more than one switch to be provided of the same type, for example a light switch can be used as a functional switch and for mechanical maintenance.

Devices suitable for isolation

1.      Isolators
2.      Isolating switches
3.      Plugs and sockets
4.      Fuse link
5.      Circuit breaker

IEE Requirements BS7671

1.      At the origin of supply
2.      For every circuit (or group of circuits)
3.      For every motor and associated control gear
4.      For every discharge lighting excluding L.V.
5.      For maintenance of main switch
6.      For control of remote equipment
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« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2004, 3:57pm by LSpark »  
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #3 - Nov 18th, 2004, 3:16pm
 
pulling the plug isnt isolation
its disconnection

ss
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LSpark
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2004, 12:56am
 
Quote:
well, it depends on the situation dosnt it


yep

Quote:
im not sure that removing the plug constitutes acsessable means of isolation either

That would depend upon if the socket was accesible really

Quote:
fancy pulling a 415 v 3 phase plug out if the metal kopex was live?


Surely it would be properly earthed

Quote:
i cant be bothered to find regs relating to it
but what you must both not forget is that weather there is a reg or not any court would wipe the floor with you over bad design and instalation



Yes they would, Well at least who's fitting them, I don't fit single sockets without isolation, and unswitched sockets are just for  people who use 1mm cable instead of 1.5mm, altho probably not quite the same  Grin Grin Grin

Anyway theres houses with lots of unswitched sockets and no isolation, the plug is the isolation it's simple as that, sockets shouldnt be concealed unless they have another switch for control  Roll Eyes
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Re: unswitched sockets
Reply #1 - Nov 18th, 2004, 12:01am
 
well, it depends on the situation dosnt it

if you have a single unswitched socket under a worktop behind a intergrated dishwasher it would be foolish to use the plug as isolation.
im not sure that removing the plug constitutes acsessable means of isolation either

fancy pulling a 415 v 3 phase plug out if the metal kopex was live?

same applies to a situation where exposed sheilded cable is used/ swa

i cant be bothered to find regs relating to it
but what you must both not forget is that weather there is a reg or not any court would wipe the floor with you over bad design and instalation

ss
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unswitched sockets
Nov 17th, 2004, 11:28pm
 
someone (who from thier other contributions im pretty sure is a sparky) added the following to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_1363#others

Quote:
The regs require an adjacent switch where this is not incorporated into the socket.


i personally don't belive this is correct and neither does LS
[23:06] <plugwash> are unswitched sockets allowed directly on a ring?
[23:06] <LS> of course
[23:06] <LS> isolation is by removing the plug

can anyone confirm of refute this statement prefereablly with sources quoted to back themselced up
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« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2004, 11:42pm by LSpark »  
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