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Outside Light - Safety? (Read 11002 times)
LSpark
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Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #19 - Apr 17th, 2004, 2:18am
 
it's no problem mac, but yeah it would be best, its 1 of the only topics i really dislike at the moment, il leave pro-spark to moderate the part p, tired now, night Smiley
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Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #18 - Apr 17th, 2004, 2:15am
 
[quote author=L.Spark  link=1082102999/15#17 date=1082164302]more part P talk getting in the posts *sigh*, what can you do, except wait for the cr*p to hit the fan [/quote]

Sorry. I'm at fault here for having branched out.

Might be better to take Part P to a separate thread?

Andrew
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LSpark
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Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #17 - Apr 17th, 2004, 2:11am
 
more part P talk getting in the posts *sigh*, what can you do, except wait for the cr*p to hit the fan
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squiggle
Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #16 - Apr 17th, 2004, 1:37am
 
If that's right HM. it's wonderful (says me with a hint of sarcasm). I for one would be even more prepared to more DIY than before - don't have the £300 to chuck at the job...
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Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #15 - Apr 17th, 2004, 1:06am
 
[quote author=squiggle  link=1082102999/0#13 date=1082145393]Seems like I was the guilty party in not understanding you HM. Sorry. [/quote]

No need to be sorry - one of the unfortunate drawbacks about written communication is that it's so easy to miss the point, whereas if you were discussing it over a pint you'd be able to see the smiles and furrowed brows, and get instant follow up..... Smiley

Quote:
As for how things go, I wish there was a means for anyone to do the job but have some sort of inspection, though I'm not sure how feasable that would be or how costly it may be. I'd honestly be happier if, on the rare occasion I tried something like this that an electrician could later be called in to say "yes that's OK" or call me an idiot and tell me to redo the job.


I have a letter here from Nick Raynsford MP, who is the minister charged with introducing Part P. In that letter, written September 2003, it expressly informs me that I can do the electrical job and then have the local council check it out, for a cost of course which is to be expected.

So in September when I received that response I immediately phoned the maintenance supervisor at the council to enquire what the cost would be. His response was "what inspection? central government haven't told us anything about this!". I explained and the guy says "oh that, I know about that because I'm in the NICEIC and it has been a rumour for a while". But he still couldn't give me a cost because they hadn't budgeted for it and didn't know precisely what it would entail.

He did suggest it would probably be something like the window inspections that they carry out, so the cost would be at least £70 and possibly £300 if it involved a fair amount of work (which a full electrical inspection would).

To which I replied words to the effect that "so I do a job of changing a light fitting, charge the customer £30 for two hours work, and customer then has to pay a bill of £300 to ensure that I did it safely?". His answer was yes, that was correct as he knew it. Customers are going to be really happy about this.....

Subsequently, 6 months on, it appears that central government have pulled up the ladder on that arrangement, and it won't now be possible to do work and have it inspected after the event.

I don't object to improved safety being an objective, and if that means I can't do the work based upon some rational decision process which I don't meet then fine. But I'm really ticked off that government tell me it's all about safety and then in the same breath say it'll be perfectly okay for the homeowner to carry on regardless. I do see logic in the Australian system which disallows anyone from fiddling with electrics unless they are properly qualified - that makes a lot of sense.

Sorry, I didn't mean to rant Smiley

Andrew
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LSpark
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Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #14 - Apr 16th, 2004, 9:47pm
 
squiggle, its good you have made the effort to come here and check it out, it MUST be earthed, and no circumstance should it be installed without this, and also be correctly fused i would suggest a 5A after ure postings

LS
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squiggle
Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #13 - Apr 16th, 2004, 8:56pm
 
Seems like I was the guilty party in not understanding you HM. Sorry.

As for how things go, I wish there was a means for anyone to do the job but have some sort of inspection, though I'm not sure how feasable that would be or how costly it may be. I'd honestly be happier if, on the rare occasion I tried something like this that an electrician could later be called in to say "yes that's OK" or call me an idiot and tell me to redo the job.

Jon
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Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #12 - Apr 16th, 2004, 8:35pm
 
[quote author=squiggle  link=1082102999/0#8 date=1082124871]Please... I've no issues with anyone here and believe I'm getting good advice from competent proffessionals but... don't put the blame on me or any other occupant! The circumstances only exist because of incompetence within the trade. [/quote]

Isn't it amazing how written words can infer the wrong thing? Smiley

I wasn't actually intending to suggest that you (or anyone connected) had lashed this up. My comment was intended to be generic in so far that joe public will be allowed to continue to bodge this sort of thing, but others who have a trade interest wouldn't. If that takes out the pro who did this job that's excellent! But he's not a pro.....

In my mind this implementation is wrong. I would much prefer to see part P go the way of Australia where you can't do electrics unless you are a time-served and qualified spark. Putting the barrier up in a position which allows householders to carry on is downright dangerous. And in fact I believe that more householders will become have-a-go heroes when they discover they either can't get someone in, or have to pay frightening fees to cover testing and inspection certificates.

My sincere apologies if you thought I was having a go at you, that really wasn't the intention. I was having a go at "the system".

Andrew
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squiggle
Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #11 - Apr 16th, 2004, 6:49pm
 
And on light polution... We only have one neighbour in range as it were and have confirmed with them that there is no problem.  Have also driven down the road and checked that's OK.  Lights stay on for a max of 5 minutes.

Jon
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squiggle
Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #10 - Apr 16th, 2004, 6:29pm
 
Thanks RR.

To be honest, it is 625W at the moment - 2x300 and 1x25w in the porch. It will drop in time (at least to 2x200W) when original "bulbs" blow.

The why is I couldn't find anything localy to light as my mother required.  The PIR unit will switch 2000W (not that I will ever use that) so it drives a second floodlight as well as the "courtesy light". One big lamp points forward to illuminate the area looking from the house towards the wood and the other lamp points towards the gate which needs opening when the car goes out.

Jon
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« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2004, 6:30pm by squiggle »  
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rabbit_rabbit
Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #9 - Apr 16th, 2004, 5:35pm
 
Sry noted a few typos in my last posting CLASS it should read.

Anyway onto circuits. best if ya can take it from lighting cct - no need for FCU (save a fiver, or so).

11 Lights already, say 100 watts each = 1100 watts = 4.85 amps. Add a 500 watt PIR 500 watts = 2.08 amps so total is 6.9 amps. Marginal indeed! Stick it on the FCU off the ring.

By the way why 500 watts? I VERY rarely come across cases wheer 500 watt PIR is actually needed - its a LOT of photons. I usually fit the anti-light-poluting 150 watt or 300 watt PIR's.

RR
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squiggle
Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #8 - Apr 16th, 2004, 3:14pm
 
Not sure that's true handy Mac...

The first part of my question was nothing I had done. I asked as I was a little nervous about fitting the lights to a fused and earthed plug (my modification from the existing unearthed set up). I also took the trouble to ask.

When my mother moved into this bungalow, she spent several thousands on plumbing and electricital repairs as a sort of plan to ensure the property was OK for the future and employed professionals.

So far from here, I have found the heating circuit was wrong after paying 2K and thats why that was causing problems. And that the light with no earth could have been lethal (not to say what I've done is right but I can change).  

I could also mention that when I plugged in a heater to the socket in the porch, I found that the F**** lights tripped!

Please... I've no issues with anyone here and believe I'm getting good advice from competent proffessionals but... don't put the blame on me or any other occupant! The circumstances only exist because of incompetence within the trade.

Jon Sad
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« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2004, 3:18pm by squiggle »  
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Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #7 - Apr 16th, 2004, 3:01pm
 
Absolutely amazing isn't it? After building regs Part P comes in the dodgy houseowners who wire up things like this will be able to carry on regardless, and conscientious professionals like me who know what can and can't be done will be barred from doing this work.

It's all in the interests of safety you know.

Andrew
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squiggle
Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #6 - Apr 16th, 2004, 1:00pm
 
We are worried about that damp ss. We had a builder round who says it's just surface and is caused by furnature close to walls, e.g in that situation the wardrobe is in there...

Jon
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squiggle
Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #5 - Apr 16th, 2004, 12:56pm
 
I've just checked the old (unearthed) light. There is no square on it. I'm sure you are right it needed an earth.
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supersparky
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Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #4 - Apr 16th, 2004, 12:55pm
 
id be worrid about that damp!

ss
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squiggle
Re: Outside Light - Safety?
Reply #3 - Apr 16th, 2004, 12:51pm
 
OK, thanks. I can easily modify my (earthed run) from the plug to come off the mains as described with a switched FCU and replace that leg of cable to the junction box with twin and earth. I could also run off the 6A lighting circuit but, (please tell me if I'm wrong) I'm reluctant to add another 500W to a circuit that already carries 11 lights.

Photos of the original job done and passed by the elsectrician are at:
http://www.folkinfo.org/temp/spark1.jpg and http://www.folkinfo.org/temp/spark2.jpg
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