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New Project feed to shed (Read 23492 times)
Keith H
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New Project feed to shed
Jul 18th, 2008, 2:48pm
 
I intend to provide a feed to my shed 20mts away from the house.

I need to know which armored cable size would be needed to run an internal shed light, also a socket for typical garden tools and maybe another feed for some garden lights.
Would 2.5mm be sufficient or would I need 4mm for the main cable run fro the house.

I intend to add a small shed type consumer unit with 2 x RCB of 16a & 6a for the internal light, would this be sufficient?

Also as a pickup point in the house I intend to join the armored cable to
internal house cable via an isolator switch fitted internally.
I have a 30Amp cooker feed near the cable entry point which is not currently used and runs back the the main house consumer unit, would that be okay to pickup from that point?

I appreciate any assistance provided.
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The_Trician
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Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #1 - Jul 18th, 2008, 5:08pm
 
At 20 metres away I'd go for 10.mm 3 core - use the third core for earth and put an earth rod in at the shed end.

You will need to ensure that you have RCD protection in place too.

The only problem I ccan see is that your existing cooker supply will only be 6.00mm and will have a smaller earth.

TT
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RabbitRabbit
Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #2 - Jul 18th, 2008, 9:01pm
 
Well assuming 6A lighting and 16A for socket(s) and using a 'garage cu' and 20 metres clipped then -

3 core xple swa works out to be 2.5 mm csa gives 6.96 volt drop (3%) so that will do. May wish to provide a bit of expansion so you may choose to go fro 4mm up to you and budget but 2.5 is OK.

As for protection the most important side of things;

Depends on what you have in the house- is the earthing arrangement in your house TN-S or PME or TT? (if you don't know say so and someone here will explain)

Do you have an RCD in you house consume unit (fuse box)?
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Lectrician
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Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #3 - Jul 19th, 2008, 8:00am
 
I would go for for 4mm SWA, and connect this to your 6mm T+E.  I would put money on the 2.5mm earth in the 6mm T+E satisfying the thermal constraignts.  As RR says, 2.5mm meets the volt drop to the shed, but I would still like a larger window, especially if you intend on looping on from there for further lights.

Use a consumer unit in the shed with an RCD incommer, and a B6 for the lights and B16 or B20 for the sockets.

No need to use an isolator at the transition in the house.

No need for an earth rod unless you decide to isolate the house earth to form a TT system outside.

To be honest, with a wooden shed, I am more than happy to see PME down there.  It is no different from a socket on a post, or a light on a wall - infact, it is safer.

You don't actually mention SWA, but I do hope you are going to be using SWA cable. (Steel Wire Armour).
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« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2008, 5:30pm by Lectrician »  

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RabbitRabbit
Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #4 - Jul 19th, 2008, 8:49am
 
I asked about an RCD on the basis of wanting to avoid the installation of a double RCD (same trip current) which is a no-no.

Concur about the cable csa - but calc's do indicate that 2.5 xple (not ordinary swa and certainly NOT t/e) will meet the volt drop ratings. As always go for the largest swa, as TT says go for 10mm that will meet just about every requirement for now and the future - but cost?

As Lec says or implies don't use anything other than swa or xple (another type of SWA)
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« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2008, 9:20am by santacruz »  
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The_Trician
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Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #5 - Jul 19th, 2008, 1:29pm
 
I always favour combining the earth from the house with a rod. It's just my belt n' braces approach!

Again, I take a broad brush approach to sizing cable for things like this. Just trying to ensure a nice low volt-drop free Zs at the far end!

Not cheap I know!!

TT










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RabbitRabbit
Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #6 - Jul 19th, 2008, 1:39pm
 
Agreed TT, I also always install a rod at far end regardless - the cost of a rod and pit box is nothing and it does not take long to install.
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cosbycarl
Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #7 - Jul 19th, 2008, 4:41pm
 
Lectrician wrote on Jul 19th, 2008, 8:00am:
To be honest, with a wooden shed, I am more than happy to see PME down there.  It is no different from a socket on a post, or a light on a wall - infact, it is safer.


What do you mean by this? Wouldnt TNS be ok or even TT if you were to put a rod down at the shed end?

Lectrician wrote on Jul 19th, 2008, 8:00am:
You don't actually mention SWA, but I do hope you are going to be using SWA cable. (Steel Wire Armour).


He does mention about what armour he should use earlier in his question, just thought i would point that one out for you   Grin
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Lectrician
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Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #8 - Jul 19th, 2008, 5:32pm
 
Ah, yes.  He does mention armoured.  Sorry.


As for the earthing type.  TN-S and TT can be exported with no worry, but PME requires special consideration....think lost neutral in supply Wink
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cosbycarl
Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #9 - Jul 19th, 2008, 6:01pm
 
ah yes ok,

cheers
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RabbitRabbit
Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #10 - Jul 19th, 2008, 6:27pm
 
Maybe it's a personal thing but I would NOT export PME. I would far rather make to remote site TT with a rod, I think the risk aint worth the cost.
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cosbycarl
Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #11 - Jul 19th, 2008, 10:11pm
 
what is actually meant by "exporting" pme?
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The_Trician
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Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #12 - Jul 20th, 2008, 1:37am
 
First of all - Google for 'PME' - Protective Multiple Earthing'.

Sod it!

Here you are - Scroll down for the diagram.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/5.6.3.htm

Now, some pundits would have you believe that the number of instances where a  lost neutral has seriously caused death or injury are high enough for you not to ever 'export pme' outside the equipotential zone.
In certain instances, BS7671 says you shouldn't do it.
Indeed, the supply companies can be funny about it too.

I'll refer you to the following IET links

http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/searchresults.cfm

And a well-informed and pragmatic view, although not endorsed by the IET,

http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/WireRegs/WiringMatters/Documents/Issue16/2005_16_...


Now, there are also some views which suggest that you shouldn't export PME at all.
My view is that it is OK to export PME AND connect the original earth to a rod - again, it's belt and braces, but if the supply neutral is lost, then at least you still have a path to earth via the rod.
Again, this is my view, but some would suggest that this is bad practise and that only one type of earthing system should be installed, and not a mixture of both.
The reason for this is that there may well be a potential difference in the true earth potential at the rod, and the exported PME earth.
So, theoretically, you could connect a voltmeter between the PME earth, and the rod, and measure a voltage.
Personally, I think this is a load of bollerks in most cases, but may be valid in others.

Sadly, no records kept of instances where such set-ups have caused a fatality.

Nor are there any records kept which record the number of instances where a 'lost supply neutral' has resulted in the death of someone at the 'wrong end' at the time.

However, the supply companies are strictly regulated and should ensure that the neutral is not 'lost' through physical damage to their cables.

So in the end, it's your call.
Make sure you understand exaclty what you are doing, then get it exported, and tie it down to earth via a rod at it's ultimate destination Grin Grin Grin Grin

Make sure that everything is bonded to ferk and all will be well.

TT
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2008, 1:43am by The_Trician »  

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cosbycarl
Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #13 - Jul 20th, 2008, 10:22am
 
Haha, you couldnt resist aye!!

Interesting stuff, thanx a lot!

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Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #14 - Jul 20th, 2008, 2:03pm
 
What's a "pit box" ?
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Lectrician
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Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #15 - Jul 20th, 2008, 2:16pm
 
These posh ones:

...

...

Or just this plain simple one, designed to protect the rod on the surface:

...
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Re: New Project feed to shed
Reply #16 - Jul 20th, 2008, 2:31pm
 
Used most the them in the past Lec. I was under the impression that a rod should always be sunk below the surface level on the basis that under a fault condition, if the rod is above the local surface, the fault current can so high as to be fatal to any animal that is with 3 metres of the rod
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