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Home made kitchens and windows advice (Read 22639 times)
CWatters
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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #18 - Sep 16th, 2010, 7:32am
 
If the walls are already going up then I'd buy the windows to be sure they are all in by the time we loose the weather. I'm already concerned I won't get my outside painting done in time this year.
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angelboy
Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #17 - Sep 15th, 2010, 8:28am
 
Thank you for your response, it was very relevant to my question.

The last project was over 12 months ago and the majority of purchases were done through the main builders merchants not wood merchants.

I was just trying to get some thoughts and some basic rule of thumbs before I start planning in any detail. As soon as I know what materials I'll be using then of course I can cost it but I wasn't intending to produce a quote only a rough estimate.

The whole point is if I find out that the cheapest bespoke kitchen would cost, for example, £30,000 and instead I could make it with a little sweat and blood, over no fixed timescale and to 80% the quality, but a quarter of the price with a full asset based workshop where costs can be recouped at project end, then I'll go for it!

Same with the windows. By the time I'll get round to it then the dust will have settled in the industry and the LA will know exactly what advice to give to which I can then work out a route based on the above theory.

I have no fixed timescale for the bulk of the building. It's not being run like a commercial project. I would rather it take 5 years of graft, learning and mistakes than to give the greedy bastard banks all my money for the next 25 years.
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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2010, 8:31am by angelboy »  
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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #16 - Sep 14th, 2010, 9:45pm
 
Quote:
The advice is welcomed but I'm getting more people telling me how I can't do rather than those telling me I can.

Can anyone actually answer my initial questions?

'What would you say are the costs of materials, softwood and hardwood to make up a similar windows?'

&

'Again, what would you say the costs are for materials to make it myself?' (Kitchen)

&

'What kind of savings can I realistically make?'

General rule of thumbs would be appreciated.

I'm sure some of you qualified and experienced people out there must have a method to calculate estimated costs of a project based on time and materials?



I have sat here and read this thread as it has progressed...

you have stated that you have some experience in project management..!!!  did that encompass purchasing of materials... as if it did, then you may (or may not) have realised that the cost of lumber, be it hard or soft wood is volotile , and has been for a while now, just a few months ago i bought some Douglas fir for newel posts, and paid £90 for a 3m length, now its £90 A METRE....

you ask about prices for lumber for windows, and also the kitchen, well the same applies, regardless of what the material is for... it all depends on what you want, hard or soft wood, sheet or stock size, exactly what type of lumber (ash/pine/spruce/meranti etc etc etc) , how much you are buying ( a few sheets or a whole cube...) and more important, what does your nearest supplier actually stock and are able to obtain....

and as for the advise on what you can and can not do, you seriously need to think about what you are planning to carry out your self. as if you are unable to give the BCO the required certrs for windows, etc, the you DO NOT get your habitation cert, and they WILL not allow you to move in!!!!!!

i have been in the building industry for 35 years now, and the amount of red tape from each and every aspect of the industry, seems to be in place to stop the indusrty from being able to carry on, most of it is total crap, and needs revising, but in the mean time you need to ADHERE to it, or face huge troubles down the line...

the advise given to you has been SOUND GENUINE ADVISE, that is extremely relevent to you, imparted by tradesmen with many , many years within the industry, between the few of us who have posted,we can probably boast some 200 plus years collective, so we do know what we are talking about.... we are not trying to be negative, but the pitfalls can and will be expensive

i have been making stairs, windows and furniture for many years, but recently have drifted sideways, away from them, as it is becoming impossible to make a living.....

a stair company i know, has to turn around 70 plus a week to make it financially viable....

WOLF

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angelboy
Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #15 - Sep 14th, 2010, 8:39pm
 
big_all -What difference does it make to my original question? There's a whole bunch of stuff I've left out as it has no relevance to the questions I asked.

Roll Eyes
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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #14 - Sep 14th, 2010, 7:17pm
 
Quote:
From a lot of replies a get the impression that everyone thinks I'm going to just jump straight in and make some windows.  


your own words say so Grin Grin
you say in the early stages off building your own house not the early stages off planning ??

the windows and doors  usualy come just after the footings when the walls are 25 to 30% built Grin Roll Eyes

they need to be constructed before the foundations are layed or they will hold up the project Cool

Quote:
I'm at the early stages of building my own house and whilst some tasks are very much left to the pros there's a number of tasks that I'm looking forward to giving a go myself. I'm not going to try and kid myself but I really believe that a good part of the tasks ahead is to make sure I have the correct tools to do the job. This being the case I'm looking to set up a small workshop where I'll be making a kitchen and even having a go at making some timber windows and doors.


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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2010, 7:23pm by big_all »  

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angelboy
Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #13 - Sep 14th, 2010, 3:01pm
 
woodsmith - Originally I was only really considering the kitchen and a few other internal cabinets but I'd seen a couple of people around the web that had made their own windows which has given me the push into thinking it's possible.

Also, I wasn't really looking for a quote just some general rule of thumbs that can help me make better decisions, so 25%-50% is a good start. I understand glass is expensive but I also understand that in a £1100 window there must be at least 30% in it otherwise why does anyone choose to make them? Maybe when the time comes I'll offer a price based on the Jeldwen windows to a local joiner and see if he takes the job.

big_all - Thanks.
I have a good amount of woodwork specific hand tools and power tools already and a long list of equipment and machine that I 'think' I need to do the job.

From a lot of replies a get the impression that everyone thinks I'm going to just jump straight in and make some windows.  

I understand I have a steep learning curve and I know I have to get specific areas covered and mastered from understanding and choosing the right materials, accurate measuring and joints, fixings and adhesives, machine/tool usage and maintenance, finishing (no doubt there's a lot I've missed) and I know that when my time is free then all I have is the materials to consider.








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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #12 - Sep 14th, 2010, 12:53pm
 
with the greatest respect you have no obviouse skills you can turn to the task in hand

you will need a router and cutters £100-300 [preferably in a table]

a mitre saw £20-300

you will need several chisles [2 gouges a mortice and 4 bevel edge]

hammer
twin pin marking gauge
sliding bevel
combination square
tennon saw
hand saw
planer

plus a few more

if you have never handled a router the dangers can be great so lots off pratice is essential

make somthing like a coffee table first to gain the initial skills move on to say a chair then a cabinet with inset doors to make you work to accurate tollerences off +or_ o.5mm

just remember every joint must be 100% flat square and parralel or they will not fit
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2010, 1:07pm by big_all »  

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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #11 - Sep 14th, 2010, 8:26am
 
You have not given anything like enough detail to be able to give you a quote. Materials normally come to between 25-50% of the finished costs, wood is only one aspect, the ironmongery and seals can be expensive and the glass even more so.

Personally I would not be comfortable encouraging you to try this, especially if you are planning to buy in some large second hand machinery.

My advice is fit your own kitchen, it will save you a lot of money, but buy the windows in. Spend your time and drive going out and negotiating a bigger discount.
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angelboy
Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #10 - Sep 14th, 2010, 8:09am
 
The advice is welcomed but I'm getting more people telling me how I can't do rather than those telling me I can.

Can anyone actually answer my initial questions?

'What would you say are the costs of materials, softwood and hardwood to make up a similar windows?'

&

'Again, what would you say the costs are for materials to make it myself?' (Kitchen)

&

'What kind of savings can I realistically make?'

General rule of thumbs would be appreciated.

I'm sure some of you qualified and experienced people out there must have a method to calculate estimated costs of a project based on time and materials?
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2010, 8:11am by angelboy »  
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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #9 - Sep 14th, 2010, 8:03am
 
big_all wrote on Sep 13th, 2010, 11:13pm:
what skills that you have do you think you can transfer to your wood work task

also what tools do you have that you think may help your tasks!!


I produce architectural drawings for planning permission and building regs and have project managed the building of 4 houses so I have some trade knowledge. I also have a background in design.

Add this to a tremendous drive, blinkered focus, attention to detail, patience and self critique.

I really believe that getting the right tools for the job is half the battle.
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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #8 - Sep 14th, 2010, 7:51am
 
Quote:
Any thoughts or realistic advice?
(please try to keep it positive otherwise don't bother..... I already know I'm an idiot but an idiot with drive and determination!)


Why ask a question if you only want a one sided answer? You had better not read any more.....


Drive and determination are useful but no use if you have no skill and experience.

You are building a house, there are loads of jobs you can do yourself but IMHO making windows is not one of them. Yes you could turn out a window of sorts, in fact you could do it with very few tools, machinery generally just speeds the job up, but getting them to comply enough for the BCO to sign them off is another matter. Plus they are normally the most noticeable aspect of the house, do you want DIY windows to look out of?

Best of luck, you are going to need it.
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2010, 8:05am by woodsmith »  


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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #7 - Sep 13th, 2010, 11:13pm
 
what skills that you have do you think you can transfer to your wood work task

also what tools do you have that you think may help your tasks!!
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2010, 11:14pm by big_all »  

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angelboy
Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #6 - Sep 13th, 2010, 9:48pm
 
I have no previous experience making windows, doors or much joinery at all.

I do know that it will be extremely challenging and I may end up with a final product that could be improved by experience but I'm approaching this with faith and a positive outlook with no time constraints and a healthy attitude towards the overall budget...... famous last words, eh?

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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #5 - Sep 13th, 2010, 7:03pm
 
Unfortunately anything you are told by the local council planning/building departments is worth absolutely nothing unless you get it in writing from them.

How much experience do you have at joinery work? Have you made windows and doors in the past?

As for the kitchen I wouldn't dream of making your own units unless you are looking for a high end bespoke finish, but that is very hard to achieve without practice and experience. A better bet would be to source the cabinets and then either make the doors yourself or source them too.

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angelboy
Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #4 - Sep 13th, 2010, 6:27pm
 
It's not my intention to offend you or anyone.

I'd been reading (some posts dating back to March) and it seems that there was much confusion about this matter, so the point I was making was not to be negative about the threads you had found (I will duly read them, thanks) but to simply pick up the phone and go straight to the source (a feat that many people still find hard to do?!?!). If the source has given me this information then who am I to argue.

When any new regs come into effect there's a massive scramble of confusion, misinformation and wildly varying interpretations that when the dust settles it's never as bad as first thought. You may quote me on this in the coming months but I really think that it's nothing major to worry about in a real world environment and that if the regulatory bodies are of the opinion that's it's a box ticking exercise then what can I do but to follow their lead. Maybe this will bite me on the bum next year when I'm ready to fit a few windows but I think by then the LA will know exactly what's required and advise accordingly.

Thanks for your reply though, this is what I like about open forums is the different perspectives that I can learn from.
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2010, 6:36pm by angelboy »  
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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #3 - Sep 13th, 2010, 3:59pm
 
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on which LA you're in) it's NOT bullshit and the opinion you've been given by your LABC could get you, and them (or whichever clown gave you the information) in a lot of bother.

You got a professional opinion off me, and if you're not prepared to read the information after someone has taken the trouble to provide it that's up to you.
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Re: Home made kitchens and windows advice
Reply #2 - Sep 13th, 2010, 3:52pm
 
To be honest I can't be bothered to read all that so I called the LABC for their advice.

Straight from the horses mouth - I can make my own windows but I have to have get an energy assessor to create a U-value calculation based on center pane, pane edge and timber edge.

I asked if I need them for every different window and he said technically yes but it's unlikely that the LA will bother.

Nobody wants the new regs and both the LABC direct and the LA's are saying they're just following orders from the EU and as always use their discretion.

If I find a suitable piece of software to calculate the windows then I can submit that myself and I can make my own windows.

I commented that the calculation means nothing if I do a shoddy job but it's not policed so we're back to a paper exercise!!!

It seems that although there's an element of truth from the larger window manufacturers there's also a lot of spin, marketing and scaremongering!

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