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Electric water heating knock (Read 8035 times)
Flashbang
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Electric water heating knock
Apr 27th, 2015, 12:43pm
 
Hi all
Sorry if this belongs in the Electrical section, but its equally a plumbing question too.  Mods feel free to move if need be.

We have just had a 4Kw Solar PV system fitted to the house (Yes I know the FiT is now low!) so the gas boiler for water heating is now Off and the water heating is via the solar panels and a special power monitoring device and the 3Kw immersion heater element fitted inside the HW Megaflow tank.
Note: Megaflow (high pressure system) tank.
Up until now we have always used the gas boiler to heat HW but of course free daylight time electric is now the order of the day. But the noise the immersion heater is making is enough to wake the dead!!
It knocks, bangs and rattles. The knocking is transferred thought the upstairs flooring too! I can record it if it necessary. Wink But it does heat the water nicely!  Grin
So the questions are...
a) Is it safe to continue using it?
b) How can I easily stop the noise, if at all?
c) Being a pressure system, can I do it or does it have to be a specialist plumber in HP water systems?

Thanks for your time.


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thescruff
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #1 - Apr 27th, 2015, 6:27pm
 
I would get the installer back sharpish.

Is anything overheating and discharging water.
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #2 - Apr 27th, 2015, 11:15pm
 
i would be checking your electric meter for extra units used as it sounds like the the heat may be "topped up " by mains electric
i could off course be wide off the mark and talking out off my arris Roll Eyes
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #3 - Apr 28th, 2015, 11:24am
 
Hi Chaps
Installation of Megaflow tank was about 18 years ago when the house was built! Its only in this month we have had solar PV (electric) panels installed hence the need to heat HW via the daytime free electric.

No discharge of water at all. Just the knocking and banging as the immersion heater heats the water. It stops as soon as the immersion cuts out or the solar control module detects lack of production of power from the panels or some appliance in the home is turned on taking the power. So no mains power is used at all to heat the water - its free! Ok I have to pay for the panels but everything they produce up to 4KW/hour is free for my use.

Oh yes, to note, due to being in an extremely hard water area all our domestic water H & C is via a Harvey's water softener, which has been in work for about 4 plus years now.

Guessing on my part... I feel its scale on or around the immersion heater but the softener should be dealing with that shouldn't it?

Does a water softener slowly dissolve existing scale build up? Which would have been there for nearly 14 years before the water softener was installed and the immersion has never been used before now.

Thanks for your help.
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #4 - Apr 28th, 2015, 4:35pm
 
Immersion could be scaled although if it was overheating I would have thought the stat would trip.

What have you got the stat set on.
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #5 - May 5th, 2015, 2:21pm
 
Hi
Sorry for the delay in replying I've been away on a long weekend break!

The immersion heaters thermostat is set to 70-75C, its this high to get as much heat out of the free electric as possible. i.e. the tank heats to a little more than normal but it then doesn't get any other heating until the next day when the panels produce more free electric.

I could turn it down to 65C - 68C  but I may lose out on the hot water stored?
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #6 - May 6th, 2015, 9:52am
 
Much too high and will lead to scale and other problems. 50-60 is the recommended setting.

Don't you have a feed in tarrif where you get paid for what you don't use.
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #7 - May 6th, 2015, 4:10pm
 
You get paid your feed in tariff whether you use it or export it. If you export it, you get your fits payment plus a few pence.  If you use it, you get your fits payment and save whatever you pay per unit (18p ish).

It makes sense to use it yourself, but only if you're benefitting from it, otherwise it is a waste.

Small scale installs don't have export meters, only fits meters, so there is no way to know how many units left the building and were exported.  A percentage is therefore used to make an assumption how much was exported.  In this case, you get paid an assumed amount to export, whether you do or not, so you're best using it all yourself if you can!

A fits meter is right after the solar inverter and clocks up units generated before you use them or export them.

An import meter registers units used from the grid. (We all have these)
An import/export meter registers both import from the grid and export to the grid.  As mentioned though, most small scale installs will retain a simple import meter, the export assumed from a percentage.
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #8 - May 16th, 2015, 4:15pm
 
Hi all
Re solar panels on a domestic instal (4Kw is max).  All power produced is metered and whether you use it or not you still get paid the rate per KWH you signed up for, Plus a Feed In Tariff too. The FIT is much lower at around 2p per KWH. So currently a 4KW system will produce approx. 15p per KWH plus the FIT of 2p KWH equalling a payment of approx. 17p per KWH. If you don't use it you waste the chance of free power!

So I have now reduced the setting on the immersion heaters stat to 60C. It still knocks and bangs when heating!  

I also have a whole house water softener (Harvey's salt type) so there should be no scale AFAIK?
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #9 - May 16th, 2015, 4:37pm
 
Has the softener been installed from new or added to an existing system.

Was it commissioned properly and is the salt levels maintained regularly.

I agree scale shouldn't be a problem, subject to the above, but the problem still points towards it.

I would take the cylinder out check the inside and the immersion heaters.
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #10 - May 22nd, 2015, 3:35pm
 
Hi
Softener has been in use for some four plus years. The house is approx. 18 years old. Mains water is exceptionally hard.  
Softener was installed by a plumber contracted to Harvey's water softeners. So yes it's a professional instal.
The salt is always replace before the salt blocks fully dissolve, so it always had salt.

The reason I initially asked was I thought it might be scale and could I remove, inspect and replace the immersion heater? As the whole system is a pressure type (Megaflow) and I was under the impression it was illegal for me to do this, as I am not pressure system certified or whatever it's called. But I have replaced several immersions in non pressure systems!  

Will the salt softener dissolve the scale in the tank?
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Re: Electric water heating knock
Reply #11 - May 23rd, 2015, 12:19am
 
Could you change/check the immersion heaters not for a custard as you need a G3 cert but DIY, why not if your competent.

Salt soften the water not guaranteed to dissolve existing scale, so checking the heaters would be my first job, at the same time I'd be checking the cylinder isn't full of scale, especially the lower immersion heater.

Has it got an inert anode had is it checked replaced every 3-4 years.  

A water softener needs to be commissioned to the use/demand and not unheard of to be too low
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