Welcome To Ask The Trades!

Quote: A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk I have a work station...
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterPM to admin  
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out! (Read 4998 times)
londonman
Trade Member
*****
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 1673
Total Thanks: 11
For This Post: 0


Malvern, United Kingdom
Malvern
United Kingdom


Trade: Cabinet Maker

Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #14 - Jan 17th, 2016, 4:00pm
 
CWatters wrote on Dec 19th, 2015, 12:04pm:
Quote:
Oh - just one more question. The bulbs are GU10 - can I replace some of them with slightly brighter bulbs (if 'bulb' is still used)?  


What are they at the moment? Halogen 35W or 50W? LED? That should be written on the bulb somewhere.

I've replaced all my 240V 50W GU10 halogen downlights with LED bulbs. I usually look for LEDs rated for at least 350 Lumens. You can find some sellers claiming 400-500 Lumens on ebay and elsewhere but beware...

Not all LEDs are reliable. I've had some fail after 6months. Others are still good after 2-3 years.

Not all LED are dimmable and those that are don't always dim very well.

Not all LED are exactly the same size as halogen. They vary in length and diameter. Even a 1mm difference can sometimes cause problems depending on the fitting. Some fittings are more tolerant than others.

The beam angle can vary from 36-180 degrees. I prefer the wider angle versions (say 100 degrees or more) for general lighting.

LED come in cold or warm white. I prefer warm white. The cold white can look brighter but also a bit harsh or even slightly blue.

Some LEDs are positively dangerous..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keaE7QTKTYE


And not all 'cold whites' are the same from different manufacturers so whatever you go for get a couple of spare bulbs as colour matching downline when they die will be a nightmare...which explains why I hate LEDs.
Back to top
 

Would all Third Party Apologists kindly mind their own business .....
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
baz
Trade Member
*****
Offline

If it ain't broke, keep
fixing it until it is!

Posts: 258
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Henley-on-Thames, United Kingdom
Henley-on-Thames
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #13 - Jan 14th, 2016, 11:45am
 
You know what they say.
To err is human, but it takes a computer to really screw things up! Grin
Back to top
 

Why is it that, when we stumble across a can of worms, instead of running for the door we find ourselves reaching for a can opener?
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Outlaner1812
Junior Member
**
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 17
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Outlane, United Kingdom
Outlane
United Kingdom

Gender: male



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #12 - Jan 13th, 2016, 8:45am
 
A Happy, Healthy & Prosperous New Year to you!

I've only just got back to this thanks to my older laptop being screwed-up by the Microsoft Free Upgrade to Windows10 - what a bl**dy farce. I'll post details if there's a General Odds & Sods section here.

Your reply is very helpful. I'll go away and check out the bulbs and will then sort it out. I'll update this when done but, thanks to Microsoft, it may be a week or two!   Wink
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
CWatters
Super Member
*****
Offline

"Daddy fick it" says James

Posts: 5096
Total Thanks: 51
For This Post: 1


Gender: male

Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #11 - Dec 19th, 2015, 12:04pm
 
Quote:
Oh - just one more question. The bulbs are GU10 - can I replace some of them with slightly brighter bulbs (if 'bulb' is still used)?  


What are they at the moment? Halogen 35W or 50W? LED? That should be written on the bulb somewhere.

I've replaced all my 240V 50W GU10 halogen downlights with LED bulbs. I usually look for LEDs rated for at least 350 Lumens. You can find some sellers claiming 400-500 Lumens on ebay and elsewhere but beware...

Not all LEDs are reliable. I've had some fail after 6months. Others are still good after 2-3 years.

Not all LED are dimmable and those that are don't always dim very well.

Not all LED are exactly the same size as halogen. They vary in length and diameter. Even a 1mm difference can sometimes cause problems depending on the fitting. Some fittings are more tolerant than others.

The beam angle can vary from 36-180 degrees. I prefer the wider angle versions (say 100 degrees or more) for general lighting.

LED come in cold or warm white. I prefer warm white. The cold white can look brighter but also a bit harsh or even slightly blue.

Some LEDs are positively dangerous..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keaE7QTKTYE
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Outlaner1812
Junior Member
**
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 17
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Outlane, United Kingdom
Outlane
United Kingdom

Gender: male



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #10 - Dec 19th, 2015, 7:16am
 
So bogged down with bl#~#y Microsoft failed updates, that I've been unable to get back until now.

The owner of the (so-called) Building 'Improvement' firm eventually not only paid for the Sparky to supply and fit 12 new slightly larger units, but he also paid £110 for a decorator to come back and repair the holes that were made in this new job. (Inevitable really, trying to enlarge an existing hole.)

Just need to get the building cert from the sparky (should be quick now he's seen my Dark Side Meldrew persona) and the job's a good 'un.

Oh - just one more question. The bulbs are GU10 - can I replace some of them with slightly brighter bulbs (if 'bulb' is still used)?  Huh Sparky didn't leave the packaging.

Thanks everyone at Ask The Trades for giving up your time to share your knowledge and expertise. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy & Healthy New Year.  Grin
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Outlaner1812
Junior Member
**
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 17
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Outlane, United Kingdom
Outlane
United Kingdom

Gender: male



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #9 - Oct 17th, 2015, 8:24am
 
thanks both. Help much appreciated. Will update you re progress.
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
CWatters
Super Member
*****
Offline

"Daddy fick it" says James

Posts: 5096
Total Thanks: 51
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #8 - Oct 14th, 2015, 1:51pm
 
Perhaps have him cut discs of plasterboard using the same oversize cutter. Fix those in place, skim with plaster to repair finish and redrill new holes in right size. New holes will probably have to be in a different place.

No calking!


Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
thescruff
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Who said plumbing was
easy.
Posts: 5888
Total Thanks: 113
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Plumber



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #7 - Oct 14th, 2015, 9:24am
 
No It will be a bodge.
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Outlaner1812
Junior Member
**
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 17
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Outlane, United Kingdom
Outlane
United Kingdom

Gender: male



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #6 - Oct 14th, 2015, 7:47am
 
Thanks Lectrician. I got prices etc and got in touch with the Home "Improvement" company. The owner has finally got the message - his sub-contracted sparky used an over-sized hole cutter and has done so before. So he, the owner, must pay to resolve it.
The owner agreed but then his sparky went on holiday.

He's only just got back (hence the delay in posting). As expected, he's reluctant to come back and fit larger bezels. What he's proposed is to apply caulk to the twelve holes.

I'm trying to be fair to him before I go into my Victor Meldrew mode, so can I ask if caulking will stop the lights from dropping down? If not, then I'll have to raise the stakes.
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8751
Total Thanks: 101
For This Post: 1


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #5 - Sep 23rd, 2015, 8:21am
 
JCC LED 6 or LED 10 have a slightly larger foot print, so you could replace with them.

They are expensive, but have a ten year warranty, and the output is excellent.  You would notice a huge difference to the lamps you have there!
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Outlaner1812
Junior Member
**
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 17
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Outlane, United Kingdom
Outlane
United Kingdom

Gender: male



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #4 - Sep 21st, 2015, 10:42am
 
I'll have to resize the picky! And try to remove the one I've just posted.
Embarrassed

Trying again:
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Outlaner1812
Junior Member
**
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 17
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Outlane, United Kingdom
Outlane
United Kingdom

Gender: male



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #3 - Sep 21st, 2015, 10:39am
 
Hi Lectrician. Sorry for the delay - I've been away.

I'll chase him up re the paperwork but from what I've seen I have no high hopes.

There are 12 GU10's. The photo is of the first one with a fault that we found, that he then 'repaired' and that, now is falling off again. His silicon didn't work.

He's also c*cked up a repair to a waste pipe under the kitchen and I'll be telling him that we're getting in a proper plumber, that he'll have to pay for it.

So, 2 of the 12 lights have already slipped and another two have started to slip.  Would a proper sparky be able to correct the problem with some kind of adaptor or will putting them right mean a new ceiling?
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8751
Total Thanks: 101
For This Post: 1


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #2 - Aug 29th, 2015, 8:31pm
 
All work should have a certificate, even if just a minor work certificate.

Any new circuits should be notified to the BCO either directly, or via a registered body such as the NICEIC.

What sort of fittings are they? Any photos of them?
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
thescruff
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Who said plumbing was
easy.
Posts: 5888
Total Thanks: 113
For This Post: 1


Gender: male

Trade: Plumber



Re: Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Reply #1 - Aug 28th, 2015, 10:55pm
 
The electric certainly has to have paperwork, the sparks will tell you what, when they log on.
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Outlaner1812
Junior Member
**
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 17
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Outlane, United Kingdom
Outlane
United Kingdom

Gender: male



Installing lights in new ceiling - falling out!
Aug 28th, 2015, 12:41pm
 
In http://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1440575922 I mentioned a problem with a waste water pipe the owner of a Home 'improvement' company has c*cked up.

His 'team' installed a new ceiling in our revamped kitchen/dining room into which he fitted a dozen spotlight flush with the ceiling. Two started to fall out. The owner came, said he'll shouted before at his sparky for using an oversized hole cutter in ceiling - this is what happed again. He silicone the two lights and says all is now fine. But I want to ask him when will the other ten fall out, why did he sub work to a sparky who'd previously caused this type of problem and did he really employ a sparky - I think he did it all himself.

silicon might be fine for now but when I have to replace a light and use a screwdriver to get it out I'll probably damage the ceiling - in a brand new kitchen/dining room.

Is it worth me taking the risk of calling him back every time a light drops out or should I bite the bullet now and tell him to start all over again? I'm in Vistor Meldrew mode so am prepared to take whatever legal action is necessary.

By the way, is this work covered by the new building regs? i.e. does this work have to be done by a qualified electrician?
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print