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A strange situation ... (Read 33163 times)
Headrush
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #34 - Dec 17th, 2015, 1:50pm
 
I know this is a long shot but have you tried experimenting with reduced tank head, even completely empty and then adding head an inch or so at a time (use the nearest isolation valve or tie up the ballvalve) and deduce at what height of head the vibration problem occurs. I'm guessing with an empty tank the vibration should not occur and we can possibly narrow it down to a head pressure thing.

There may also be check valves in the shower supplies, maybe try and isolate those too. I have to admit this is a very curious problem, and as Scruff has said, in all his years it's never happened on his watch..   Huh
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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #35 - Dec 17th, 2015, 2:23pm
 
i tried reducing the level in the header tank (see post number 11), so it wouldn't hurt to lower it a bit more, I guess.

Could you expand on "head pressure thing" for me?

Ray
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #36 - Dec 17th, 2015, 3:38pm
 
The "head pressure thing" is the pressure created by the water in the tank, the head is the distance above the outlet that the top of the water is so lowering the water level in the tank will reduce the head/pressure.
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #37 - Dec 17th, 2015, 8:28pm
 
OK, thanks - more or less what I thought, but how does that cause a vibration?

Ray
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thescruff
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #38 - Dec 18th, 2015, 11:06am
 
Unlikely that it will but we're clutching at straws so anything is worth a try.

Did you isolate the power shower electrically.

My take on it, is still external from the tank so switching anything electric off should stop it eventually.

Expansion tanks can vibrate but yours is for the heating and there shouldn't be a connection.

Sounds like a pump-or motor as your original post and that is where I would concentrate, the noise is too fast and regular to be much else.

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rgirling
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #39 - Dec 18th, 2015, 11:28pm
 
As I said earlier, the shower has a built-in low-voltage pump that switches on once the water flow reaches a certain volume, so whilst it is possible to run the water (gently) without the pump kicking in, it's not possible for the pump to run without water - anyway, I'd hear it. It has got an isolating switch, so I will isolate it next time the noise kicks in.

The only other pump in the house is the CH pump, mounted in the airing cupboard, as shown in earlier photos. I can hear that clearly when it runs too, but the noise occurs at any time of the day or night when it's not running. I'll switch that off too when I hear the noise again.

Ray
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thescruff
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #40 - Dec 19th, 2015, 10:38am
 
I would probably go mad and throw the main switch next time it makes a racket
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #41 - Dec 19th, 2015, 2:35pm
 
I was thinking that - it would be a definitive answer, either way!  Smiley
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #42 - Dec 21st, 2015, 8:56am
 
Update: I isolated the shower - made no difference, but not surprising because, as I said earlier, it has separate balanced supplies.

Next task - throw the mains switch!

Ray
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #43 - Dec 23rd, 2015, 12:05pm
 
Further update: Threw the mains switch - no difference. I then fully turned off the gate valve on the down-pipe from the storage tank and the noise stopped. I think this sort of proves that the noise is related to the head of water, so I'll turn that down as low as I can go and see what happens.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!


Ray
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #44 - Dec 31st, 2015, 11:18pm
 
Sorry Ray, not possible unless you have running water and even then unlikely.

What does the valve feed/turn off.

What size pipe is the cold feed.

Is the pipe hot/warm below the valve.

And a very happy and Prosperous new year to you
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #45 - Jan 5th, 2016, 9:00am
 
Scruff, what about fitting a mini Rester to the cold pipe where it leaves the tank to feed the house, do you think that may make a difference?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p85345

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thescruff
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #46 - Jan 5th, 2016, 9:18am
 
woodsmith wrote on Jan 5th, 2016, 9:00am:
Scruff, what about fitting a mini Rester to the cold pipe where it leaves the tank to feed the house, do you think that may make a difference?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p85345




Dont think it will make any difference Woodsmith.

Still thinking about the problem so talking out loud to myself.

Gate valves and checkvalves can rattle, but, you need running water, or perhaps better circulating water.

Turning the gate valve off has stopped the noise which kind of proves the theory but Ray has also said opening any tap also stops the noise.

It's possible to get parastatic circulation in a pipe but it wouldn't be as regular as the recording, same applies if the coil in the cylinder has gone. I did ask question but not answered.

Clutching at straws I would probably change the gate valve
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #47 - Jan 5th, 2016, 9:41am
 
Could the shower pump have a flow valve fitted in the supply which is oscillating, perhaps it would be worth turning off the isolating valves feeding it?
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #48 - Jan 5th, 2016, 11:48pm
 
Probably the only way to track the problem Woodsmith, take each part out of the equation.

A listening stick may help to get you nearer to the noise.

The noise is too regular to be water hammer and in any case you need running water for that. As per Rays opening post it sounds like a motor or in my opinion a pump
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #49 - Jan 15th, 2016, 12:40pm
 
thescruff wrote on Dec 31st, 2015, 11:18pm:
Sorry Ray, not possible unless you have running water and even then unlikely.

What does the valve feed/turn off.

What size pipe is the cold feed.

Is the pipe hot/warm below the valve.


The valve shuts off the cold supply from the storage tank and definitely stops the noise when fully closed.

The pipe is 22mm.

It's a cold feed, so no - not warm anywhere.

I've got the storage tank supply valve set at its lowest setting which has reduced the head of water, but not by much.

Over the last couple of weeks, the noise has been triggered two or three times by my wife walking into her bathroom. No, she's slim and fit, it's not a load problem! However, it seems that some movement or flexing of the floor sets the noise off, so I'm now investigating the mounting clips, etc. The trouble is that - when the noise starts - by the time I've got beneath the floor, it's stopped again. I can't find what or where unless it's making the noise and it's almost impossible now to make it start. Bugger!

Ray
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Re: A strange situation ...
Reply #50 - Jan 15th, 2016, 4:18pm
 
I think you'd be better investigating as much as you can under the floor and hidden to see what you can find.

Turning the gate valve down will reduce the flow not the head
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