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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Plumbing Questions >> Transco fined £15million https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1125096923 Message started by Timmo on Aug 26^th, 2005, 11:55pm

Title: Transco fined £15million
Post by Timmo on Aug 26^th, 2005, 11:55pm

Doesn't seem to make alot of difference now if you do your own gas work. The risk of injury and destroying your house is small fry compared to that of Transco. Not a good example to set to the rest of us!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4184962.stm

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by billythekid on Aug 27^th, 2005, 12:07am

read that with interest in the paper this morning, 13 million more than any previous company for a health and safety disaster. they'l just add it to the suppliers bills who will add it to ours. nice lesson!

btk

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by thescruff on Aug 27^th, 2005, 12:17am

wrote on Aug 26^th, 2005, 11:55pm:

Unless you know the facts Timmo, :-X

You have no idea of the size or scale of the gas network in this country, if they get it 90% right all the time then they have done well.

I hope they appeal and win.

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by JerryD on Aug 27^th, 2005, 8:34am

But if you're dealing with gas you HAVE to get it right 100% of the time.

No excuses.

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by Jim_F on Aug 27^th, 2005, 9:16am

whilst it is an emotive topic in Scotland, I do wonder if the Jury found Transco guilty on the Evidence or Guilty via some sense of "Stuff the big company, people died and someone is to blame".

I think that Transco cannot be held responsible for this though. There records would have been inherited from the old British Gas Distribution Arm, and unless they did up every foot of gas main in the nation, they have to trust that those records are accurate.

Further, with regards the leak, unless it is reported to them, they are not psychics as I understand Transco.

In my experience of the company, if you do report a leak they are round like a rocket, no messing about, and any leak so found is repaired without delay, however if they do not know about the leak, thay cannot repair it.

I too hope they appeal and win.

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by billythekid on Aug 27^th, 2005, 2:53pm

the thing is they said they spent millions repairing all the pipes in that area, also the gas leak was leaking into the sub-floor of the house and filling up the foundations that's why no-one reported a leak, no-one knew about it!
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/search.cfm?searchscope=66633&num=10&query=transco&image2.x=0&image2.y=0&image2=Search
and more specifically
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/news/tm_objectid=15897290%26method=full%26siteid=66633-name_page.html

btk

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by JerryD on Aug 27^th, 2005, 7:14pm

Well from that last Daily Record report it seems Transco did know this pipe was leaky in the past and was of a metal that was prone to failure.

It seems strange that AFTER the explosion, Transco replaced all 1500 miles of this type of pipe.

"The pipe involved was made of a type of cast iron known as ductile iron. It had leaked several times since it was laid in 1973 but had not been replaced.

Transco knew as far back as 1988 that ductile iron pipes could fail in certain types of soil. Bosses said they had a programme to replace such pipes.

But prosecutor Frank Mulholland QC said the amount of work the company actually did was "derisory".

He told the jury: "You might well think that the driving force behind Transco's approach was money rather than safety.

"This was an accident waiting to happen. Tragically and unnecessarily it was the Findlay family who ended up paying the price."

Transco made profits of £390million, on a turnover of £2.2billion, in the year to March 2005.

In the three years after the Findlays were killed, Transco replaced all known sections of ductile iron pipe in Britain - a total of some 1500miles.

But Lord Carloway said the company should have acted much earlier. He added: "Substantial sections of the public were exposed to significant danger from corroded and corroding ductile mains in close proximity to their homes and workplaces."

The court heard that before the explosion, Transco had no effective policies for the use, inspection or maintenance of ductile iron pipes."

I can't see how you can defend Transco on this one. Another example of a big company looking at the balance sheet rather than the maintenance programme.

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by Jim_F on Aug 28^th, 2005, 8:11am

You are basing your comments on the information, selected and printed, to emphasise the story by the Press, known charletans and liars.

Having witnessed a technical court case, I am sure that the Jury simply lacked the technical knowledge to understand the case. If the case was as clear cut as the articles imply, then why on earth did it take 24 weeks to prosecute?

Have you any idea of the amount of information that would need to be discussed for this case to last that long? Most in depth murder cases only take about 8 weeks, and this is with all the details forensic works etc..

Whilst I agree that perhaps Transco may have some culpability, I do not see that there was reason for this conviction based on the rather spurious reports in a single Newspaper..

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by JerryD on Aug 28^th, 2005, 8:45am

So you're saying that the Judge and Jury got it wrong?

After 24 weeks listening to evidence there was a unanimous vote by the jury.

What's the point of a court case then?

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by thescruff on Aug 28^th, 2005, 10:31am

Ever been on a Jury Jerry.

I have (about 20) and I can assure you its a lottery.

One case comes to mind that was very complicated and technical and the guy was as guilty as sin.

Not guilty after 2days trying to explain to half a dozen womem who had no idea what they was talking about.

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by sparxxxx on Aug 28^th, 2005, 11:44am

Scruff how f###### old are you?
Everyone who is called to jury service is automatically excused for the next 7 years.
By my calculation you must be at least 158 Years old - perhaps that's why you know so much about everything :-*.

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by thescruff on Aug 28^th, 2005, 1:55pm

I'm immortal ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No I was on call out duties, if they was short they had a list of person to drag in.

in any case ;D it's only 3 years I think.

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by big_all on Aug 28^th, 2005, 5:25pm

wrote on Aug 27^th, 2005, 7:14pm:

Another example of a big company looking at the balance sheet rather than the maintenance programme.

dont know if it applies in this case but big companys are known to do finacial risk assesments

as in if its cheaper to pay out neglegence claims than make things safer they take this road
this is why i think taking executives to court is a good idea its amazing how much it focuses the mind and alters the priorities away from share holders and towards safety

Title: Re: Transco fined £15million
Post by JerryD on Aug 28^th, 2005, 5:53pm

That's right BA, I'm sure this is why Transco suddenly replaced 1500 miles of dodgy pipes.