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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Carpentry Questions >> studs and load bearing https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1168903016 Message started by Moosehead on Jan 15^th, 2007, 11:16pm

Title: studs and load bearing
Post by Moosehead on Jan 15^th, 2007, 11:16pm

Hi all

First post here after some fuitless searching.

I have a drylined studs secured to the brick wall of my house and I am going to mount an 18kg tv onto the wall.

The bracket says it will take up to 25kg and the instructions say to screw it with supplied 2 fixings into a single verticle stud then test it by hanging on the bracket.

I had originally thought I would have to cut away a patch of the drywall and bold the bracket to the brick so I am curious to know (assuming the fixings would hold) very roughly how much weight the average stud could bear?

Many thanks

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by WOLF on Jan 15^th, 2007, 11:32pm

Hi Moosehead, and welcome to this here forum...

the stud you are going to ( or have affixed) the bracket to .. what size is it! 3 x 2" or 4 x 2" .... not that it matter too much, as if a vertical stud, you are actually compressing down on it , as if it was still a tree..
i would have a few minor concerns if it was a horizontal timber stud,

all i can advise, is that you drill small pilot holes, to avoid actually splitting the timber when you are driving the fixings home tightly, as if this were the case, then you would have the small possibility of the screws coming loose as the timber fluctuates with moisture/temperature content!

hope this helps!

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by Moosehead on Jan 15^th, 2007, 11:54pm

Thanks Wolf that makes sense and has put my mind at rest.

No idea the size of the stud, it was all done by the previous owner years ago. Will have a go at fixing it onto the stud tomorrow with some pilot holes.

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by WOLF on Jan 16^th, 2007, 12:03am

when i used to actually train up my apprentices in the workshop, i used to use a standard ice lolly stick, to prove the point of timber strength being "with" the grain.. , by holding the stick on its side one end on your thumb, the other on your finger, press the middle, it bends and breaks,
however, hold it vertical, and press on both ends, Much , much harder to break... unless of course, you push it side wards via the middle! , which is ineffect, the "horizontal" test!!!

glad to of been some assistance!

Wolf!

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by Moosehead on Jan 17^th, 2007, 12:45am

Well it didnt quite go to plan. Tested the stud width with a probe and found it was only 1.5" wide and a pilot hole went straight through until I hit brick. Took a socket off the wall for a look and the drywall is only 1.5" away from the brick so the stud is only 1.5 by 1.5. Brackets uses a 3" screw so I reckon the only solution is to cut away the board and mount the arm to the brick. This is not going to look too clever as it swivels horizontally. Probably end up with a draught too. Any thoughts on other solutions?

Thanks

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by WOLF on Jan 17^th, 2007, 12:55am

More like a dot and dab effort gone wrong! >:(

how big is the back bracket!?? 6" square or there abouts... ???????

if so, cut a hole in the plasterboard to suit just a fraction under the size of the back bracket, remove the section of offending timber "BATTEN" and replace with a piece of timber the size of the new hole, and to the same depth as the stud AND plaster board!
now , using the timber insert as a "SOLID" backing to the bracket affix both to the brickwork....

you can do this by drilling through the timber insert, and affixing straight to the wall through the corners( again pre-drilling so as not to split the timber) and then aligning up the back bracket, marking the holes and then drilling through the timber and into the brick work , and affix using screws of ample length, how ever just prior to fixing bracket to newly affixed timber insert, apply a sealant, like decorators caulking around the timber insert to stop any draughts!

hope this is not to long winded and is clear enough!!!

hope this helps!

WOLF!

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by woodsmith on Jan 17^th, 2007, 6:27pm

They're doing this very thin battening on some barn conversions nearby as the brick wall isn't damproofed. If your battening is there for a similar reason you would have to be careful you didn't end up with a damp patch. Can you not use longer screws? As long as you fix it through the battens it shouldn't damage the plaster as you tighten the screws.

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by Moosehead on Jan 17^th, 2007, 7:16pm

Thanks its almost clear now.

Fixings seem to be the key so I picked up some 120mm long thunderbolts that the guy said would hold a heck of a lot more than 20kg.

The bracket is 3" by 8". The confusion I have is on the batten bit. I was only putting it on the stud because it was there. Ideal position is where there is no stud.

I have the timber which I can make flush to the wall but if I make it the same size as the bracket i cant fix it to the wall independently of the bracket it could only be fixed through the bracket.

So is the stud or extra timber support at all important if I get 3" into the brick behind?

If it is, I would prefer to ignore the stud and go with a 4" by 8" piece, thunderbolt that onto the wall after making all the holes and then bolt the bracket onto that. That way I can see I am not drilling into mortar but into the middle of a brick.

Thanks for the heads up on damp. Its a 1930s house. I am pretty sure the wall the tv is going on is double solid brick with a cavity so probably OK with going 3" into the first brick?

Many thanks for your help.

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by woodsmith on Jan 17^th, 2007, 7:37pm

If you screw through the plasterboard into the brick where there is no batten you will almost certainly pull the plasterboard up to the brick damaging the plaster finish big time.

There are various ways round this, as Wolf suggests, or you could try cutting a slot in the plasterboard and glue a couple of short support battens in place with Gripfill. It may be possible to sleeve the screws but without actually seeing the job it's hard to say if that would be strong enough :-/.

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by WOLF on Jan 18^th, 2007, 4:18pm

MH, dear chap, i have done the small drawing attatched to show you the best way i believe in putting up your tv bracket...

as you can see from the drawing, all you need to do is cut a small piece of timber , just a bit smaller than the tv bracket size, and where ever you need to mount this bracket, cut a matching hole in the plaster board! even where there are no studs... then affix this to the wall ( i had alook at all our tv brackets, and they have holes on the 4 corner ) if your bracket is roughly the same then drill 2 holes in the centre of the timber, and fix back to brickwork... next line up the bracket to cover the timber insert , then mark the holes onto the timber, drill holes to suit the fixings you bought, and then affix back to the timber/plaster board the bracket... as you were worried about any draughts coming around the bracket, ( hence the slightly under sized timber piece!) run a small bead of sealant/decoraters filler around the bracket/plaster board connection!

obviously the timber will be approximately the same size as the bracket! ( just slightly less! )

in regards to WOODSMITHS point, if you tried to fix the bracket direct to the wall through the plaster board, then you will find as you tighten up the bracket, it will put it self right thorugh the plaster board, leaving you with a steady bracket ( MAY BE!!!) but a rather nasty rough edged hole in the plastere board! ... :o :o :o :o

you MUST have a "SPACER/PACKING PIECE" between the bracket and the wall to keep the bracket flush with the plaster board...

i hope this helps and clarifies the solution to your problems!

WOLF!!!!

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by jjj on Jan 18^th, 2007, 8:20pm

i wish i could draw like that.

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by JerryD on Jan 19^th, 2007, 12:10am

Nice drawing Wolf, I'm impressed!

Who drew it for you?

:-D ;D ;D ;) ;)

Only kiddin' :-*

Like they say 'A picture is worth a thousand words' :D

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by WOLF on Jan 19^th, 2007, 12:19am

wrote on Jan 19^th, 2007, 12:10am:

Who drew it for you!! :D

my "ETCH-A-SKETCH! machine!!! LOL ;D ;D

in reality, when at school, (many ..many moons ago, i came top in my technical drawing class! ..buggered if i know how!!! ;D ;D) that and my art "A" level......

oh those were the days , when qualifications MEANT SOMETHING!

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by JerryD on Jan 19^th, 2007, 12:32am

I made this the other day, was this one of your 'old' designs :-? :P :D ;) ;D

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by WOLF on Jan 19^th, 2007, 12:37am

this is one of my OLDER DESIGNS JD!!!!!!

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by JerryD on Jan 19^th, 2007, 12:53am

Jeez! I've gone boggley eyed just looking at it ;D ;D

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by Moosehead on Jan 19^th, 2007, 1:15am

;D Very much appreciated Wolf.

Proceeded as illustrated and am almost there. Good luck meant the bracket holes will avoid any mortar. The brick turned out a bit uneven so I am about 3mm - 5mm short of flush in places. Some washers and a steel front plate should sort that when I fix it tomorrow.

Cutting away the plasterboard was enlightening. We now know why the house is so cold - not a scrap of inuslation behind the plasterboard! One for the building forum later I guess.

Will let you know if I succeed.

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by WOLF on Jan 19^th, 2007, 1:28am

Glad to of been of some assistance...MH!! !

and JD, if you still used your old avatar you will have had your glasses on, and not so screwy eye balls!!

LOL ;D

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by Moosehead on Jan 20^th, 2007, 12:35am

:D Success! The TV is on the wall as solid as you like and the bracket looks first class. In fact you'd think someone competent had done the job. :-D

Thanks again chaps.

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by WOLF on Jan 20^th, 2007, 12:50am

well done that "someone competent "..... :D

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by Sandy on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 6:45pm

Hi Moosehead,

Sorry if this question appears to be nosey but, are you by any chance hanging a plasma/lcd flat panel screen? If so, I've just bought one recently and the guy who sold it to me from a well known high street store gave me some really sound advice, (unusual from high street stores) especially if you are hanging them from a stud wall (not applicable to me, but anyway).

He suggested that before you hang the screen, make an anchor (I assume he must mean some form of sleeve anchor) in the wall and somewhere on the monitor (check the manual) should be at least one other secure point where you can attach a 'leash' to the anchor.

Now comes the relevent part. If the bracket gives way at least the anchor (assuming it's secured correctly) should prevent the tv hitting the floor.

The other thing to note was that he said insurance companies very rarely pay out under the circs of the bracket coming away from the wall unless specifically insured for that reason.

Long story, but, something consider.

Sandy

Title: Re: studs and load bearing
Post by Moosehead on Jan 25^th, 2007, 11:12pm

Hey Sandy

Yes a 32" LCD. The anchor sounds like a good plan.
In the end I didnt have a suitable stud so I have effectively got 5 thunderbolt anchors that hold the bracket to the brick.
There is no way that bracket arm is becoming disconnected from the wall unless the house comes down!

Overkill I guess but I was not so much concerned about the TV breaking but it landing on a small child. Better safe than sorry.

I was in a high end AV shop yesterday though and they had a 50" plasma on a wooden stand with a vogel arm. I asked the guy how that was safe and he said that when you get rid of any stand the plasma is quite light and LCDs are even lighter. He showed me the thin bit of MDF it was mounted to and said they mount them to stud walls all the time no problem. :-/