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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Plumbing Questions >> British Gas Repair & Powerflush https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1177924321 Message started by davidh on Apr 30^th, 2007, 10:12am

Title: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by davidh on Apr 30^th, 2007, 10:12am

Hi,
Had a problem with my Potterton boiler on Saturday morning - found it was leaking "coffee" coloured water. As we have a contract with British Gas I called them out. The engineer found a hole in the heat exchanger (?) that was causing the leak and will be replacing it. He has also quoted us £716 (inc. vat) as he says the system needs to be powerflushed and any further failures we may have won't be covered unless this is done. The house is only 6 years old, so the central heating system isn't ancient. We've had BG cover for 4 years now and they inspect it anually. The system is quiet and I'm unaware of cold spots on radiators. I saw no solid debry from the fluid the engineer drained off. Does this sound right :-?

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by CWatters on Apr 30^th, 2007, 9:12pm

No it doesn't. Seems to be a common complaint with BG.

Read these....

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=155334

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/2904-british-gas-power-flush.html

On the web a typical power flush from another company costs around £250 including the chemicals, but I suspect you don't need it if there were no cold spots. If it was my system I'd drain and refill the system myself a few times then refill adding Fernox or similar corrosion inhibitor. If you really want to get BG to do it tell them others have quoted £250 and see what they say.

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by Benson on May 1^st, 2007, 12:34am

It is rather bad luck to have a heat exchanger go after that amount of time, but the price IMHO seems rather expensive and has been said before power flushing is an exercise that must be carried out correctly. My advice for whats its worth drop the BG contract find yourself a local trustworthy fitter and go from there. Regards Jimbo

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by CWatters on May 1^st, 2007, 7:15am

Just to clarify... Does that price include the heat exchanger (covered by the contract?) or is it just for the power flush? Some people have been quoted that much just for the flush.

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by davidh on May 1^st, 2007, 8:59am

Hi, Thanks for the responses, I won't be renewing the BG contract.

The cost was for the powerflush. The heat exchanger is being replaced under the service contract.

As the BG engineer drained the system after the fault occurred, I assume that he'll be refilling the system once the part has been replaced and adding the required amount of Fernox as per the big sticker on the side of the tank...

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by CWatters on May 1^st, 2007, 11:53am

Did they put any of this in writing? I'd be tempted to file a complaint both with BG and with trading standards. It sounds like what the engineer said amounts to blackmail.

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by davidh on May 1^st, 2007, 1:41pm

Update:

The British Gas man called this afternoon to repair the boiler, but didn't have the correct part so should be back tomorrow.

I wasn't home, but my wife was...
She asked if he planned to add inhibitor to the system when he refills it as per the manufacturer's requirements and he said "no, as it had none in in the first place".
She asked him to confirm that BG wouldn't cover us for any other central heating faults is we didn't have the powerflush done, and he said that was correct.
She asked for the name of his manager, but unfortunately he couldn't remember it.

Nothing has been given in writing.

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by thescruff on May 1^st, 2007, 6:05pm

You need to make sure the inhibitor has been replaced after the repair, make a point of watching him doit.

Then get it in writing along with the managers name, and if he cannot remember it tell him to phone the office and get.

And just to really pee him off ask to see his Corgi card before he starts ;D

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by CWatters on May 1^st, 2007, 6:19pm

wrote on May 1^st, 2007, 1:41pm:

Update:
She asked if he planned to add inhibitor to the system when he refills it as per the manufacturer's requirements and he said "no, as it had none in in the first place"

Humm. So BG have inspected/serviced it for four years and in that time they haven't checked or put any inhibitor in. That's probably why the heat exchanger leaked in the first place.

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by CWatters on May 1^st, 2007, 6:32pm

According to this web page...

https://www.britishgas.biz/Boiler_Breakdown/HomeCareTermsAndConditions.aspx

Quote:

A. what is included
1. central heating
<snip>
All necessary PowerFlush work after your initial PowerFlush (which we charge you for). See the 'PowerFlush' section in this leaflet

and that says...

Quote:

Powerflush

PowerFlush is a way of removing sludge and other waste from central-heating systems. We may also suggest you correct any design faults which might cause the problem to return. This work can increase the life of your system, and improve efficiency.

When a repair is needed due to sludge (for example, damage to the pump, valves or radiators), we will carry out this job, at no extra cost, as long as we have not already told you that you need a PowerFlush or similar procedure. Our engineer will also tell you what other work is needed to avoid further problems, or offer you a different British Gas HomeCare option.

If we recommend that you carry out a PowerFlush, we will charge you to carry out this work. Once it is finished, there will be no charge for any future PowerFlush work that may be needed as long as you keep a continuous HomeCare 100, 200, 300 or 400 agreement with us at that property and as long as we carry out any work to correct design faults.

PowerFlush is a trademark."

..so I read that as ... if you had one done when you joined the homecare plan then all future Powerflush work should be free.

I note that corrosion inhibitor isn't specifically mentioned but in my view that's essential maintenance like an oil change in a car.

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by davidh on May 2^nd, 2007, 7:44pm

All, thanks for your comments :D

However, the saga continues...

The engineer returned again this afternoon and still couldn't complete the repair as there was a problem with the size of the pipes (???) so will be returning tomorrow.

The engineer (allegedly) told my wife that he spoke to his manager (his memory must have returned) to say that there was an issue making the repair, but as he's not done anything wrong it's not his problem. My wife peppered this statement with a variety of unlady-like expletives.

I've complained to BG - or at least the helpful chap in the call centre - about the poor customer service and, though he couldn't/wouldn't give me the name of anybody senior to speak to, he's assured me he'd be emailing my complaint to the engineer team manager's mailbox. I await a response...

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by The_Trician on May 2^nd, 2007, 8:01pm

British Gas don't actually employ plumbers/gas fitters directly IIRC. They 'franchise' the work out to third parties, even though the man who calls at your house turns up with a BG ID card and a big blue BG van.

My mate worked for em connecting new boiler/system controls up after Part P came in - he has since left............

TT

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by thescruff on May 2^nd, 2007, 9:53pm

The_Trician wrote on May 2^nd, 2007, 8:01pm:

Of course BG employ plumbers/gas fitters TT :-X :-X :-X

What County are you in David, perhaps The Association of Registered Gas Installers (ARGI) could investigate for you.

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by davidh on May 4^th, 2007, 9:42pm

I have hot water ;D

The replacement parts were fitted successfully on Thursday afternoon, 2ltrs of inhibitor were added to the system and the engineer was, well... nice (the same one as before).

BG still haven't actually responded directly to me re. my earlier complaint and I'm still not sure wether we need a power flush as we alegedly have aggressive water. I guess I'll have to pay to have that checked by somebody else.

Thanks to all who've taken time to read my ranting and point me in the right direction.

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by thescruff on May 4^th, 2007, 10:45pm

Mention Argi and BG change the tune in most cases ;D

Anyway you got it sorted which is good.

For the sake of wasting the inhibitor I would get an "magnaclean" fitted, for around a hundred quid plus fitting its worth every .penny.

http://adeysolutions.co.uk/magnaclean/

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by CWatters on May 9^th, 2007, 12:42pm

Just a foot note on corosion inhibitor...make sure you put enough in.

Fernox specify a percentage of the volume of water - typically 0.5% or 4% depending on which of their products. You can measure the volume when draining the system. I believe you can also get kits for testing the concentration and Fernox recommend that should be done every year.

I've just estimated the volume of my UFH system at around 550L.
Thats 300L for the thermal store and approx 250L for the UFH pipes. My sums suggest that requires just under 3L of Fernox F1 costing nearly £90 from screwfix. Gulp. Hope I don't have to drain it very often.

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by thescruff on May 9^th, 2007, 7:29pm

Thats a big underfloor system :o I would re-calculate it.

An 15mm copper pipe hold 0.145 litres per metre.

250ltrs equates to 1724mtrs of pipe or 1 mile ish :o

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by CWatters on May 9^th, 2007, 10:49pm

I've got two 11 port manifolds (one per floor) and long runs to the rooms. I don't recall there being a lot of pipe left in the skip so to play safe I assumed a whole 100m reel was used per port. That would mean we used 2200 Mtrs. Perhaps I'd best go look up how much pipe they quoted for originally.

I guessed the internal diameter at 12mm as I couldn't find a sample to measure. Perhaps 10mm is closer? If I assumed 10mm that would make it 172L plus the store, or 472L total. Needing 2.36L and I've saved a 500cc bottle for next time. :-)

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by thescruff on May 9^th, 2007, 11:19pm

It's not that important really unless you have fitted a thermal store ;D in which case treble the quantity. :-X

As with any sludge bucket the more the better

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by heating-eng on Feb 10^th, 2010, 11:20pm

CWatters wrote on Apr 30^th, 2007, 9:12pm:

we only charge £250 for a powerflush and do it the same as BG .(we spend a full day flushing)
i worked there 20 years.

the most you should pay is about £300 i would say .

Title: Re: British Gas Repair & Powerflush
Post by heating-eng on Feb 10^th, 2010, 11:24pm

wrote on Apr 30^th, 2007, 10:12am:

if the water is like coffee then i would guess its proberly got sludge in it .
there is a couple of things that i would look at if i was you .

firstly you could get it flushed but whos to say it will not come back ?
the other thing you could do is fit a magnaclean filter these are very very good .
hope this helps ..