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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Alarms, Phones, Aerials, CCTV & Datacomms >> Fire/smoke alarm for workshop https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1217190658 Message started by woodsmith on Jul 27^th, 2008, 9:30pm

Title: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by woodsmith on Jul 27^th, 2008, 9:30pm

I would like to fit a fire/smoke alarm to my relatively dusty workshop. I only need a relatively simple system as it is a relatively small workshop and there are only two of us working at any time.

I would need about 4 detectors and an external sounder.

Does anyone know of a decent system, not too expensive?

Ta

Keith

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Jul 28^th, 2008, 7:03am

For a dusty environment you would be looking more at heat detectors for a simple system. However, there is little point using heat detectors to protect people in the workshop, as they will feel the heat too! It would however protect people in adjacent rooms, or above.

Is this a workshop attached to a house or similar? A simple mains interlinked heat/smoke system is likely all you need.

If you want an external sounder, you would then need to look to go for a simple system - cheap budget ones are available from SF.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by woodsmith on Jul 28^th, 2008, 8:14am

I'm looking to try to protect the workshop rather than anyone working in it! ;D

It's about 5m from the house and well insulated and I wouldn't be able to hear any internal sounders once I shut the doors. I need something that will give me an external warning, should I get a smouldering in the woodpile.

The 2-zone alarm at SF is £425, and looks far to complicated for what I need, plus I'd like to get something cheaper.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 28^th, 2008, 3:50pm

Install linked alarms Woodlice and add an extra alarm, in the house. I think you will hear it OK then. Quiet easy to install as well.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Jul 28^th, 2008, 4:51pm

If you are looking to protect property and not life, you need a quick acting firealarm, and in a dusty environment you would struggle price wise with this.

You would be best to just use some AICO Easyfit mains interlinked.

Decide if you would be happy with the slight delay of heats in the workshop, or the annoyance of possible false alarms with smokes (and the need to possibly clean them out all the time!).

I would put some heats in the workshop and a couple smokes in the house. Use some three core 1.5mm SWA if required between the two buildings.

You can get radio bases for the AICO easyfit, and this would negate alot of the interlink wiring, just having to provide a mains feed to each detector.

SF dont do the Easyfit range I do no tthink.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by woodsmith on Jul 28^th, 2008, 6:34pm

Thanks for the replies,

I would have used linked alarms but I can't run power between the workshop and the house; listed building and walls 2ft thick. Plus I have the conservation officer breathing down my neck at the moment. Which I why I thought fitting a sounder outside the workshop would be the best option.

I thought a simple control box with a couple of zones and an external sounder would be ideal. Perhaps I could use linked alarms and a relay to switch the sounder?

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 28^th, 2008, 7:04pm

Can't really see a problem Woodlice with running a cable between the two.

OK so it's Listed (II I assume) and has Cob walls (I assume), very nice may I add. But you would NOT be taking the cross link through the wall. Surely you could run a small catenary to the eves then run under the eves into the house.

Maybe the conservation may object but is he is anything like the conservation chaps and building regs and fire officer sI have met when working on listed (I and II) thatched homes they are thankful for ANYTHING that means they can get to a house like yours ASAP. I was working on a listed II thatched home once and tripped the incoming RCD this caused the alarm to set off, the fire brigade were there literally with 3 minutes - and the house was in the middle of nowhere out in the country.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by scotspark on Jul 28^th, 2008, 10:40pm

if you use the aico easy fit with a wireless base in the house and one in the workshop you wont need an interlink cable

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by woodsmith on Jul 29^th, 2008, 7:42am

Ray the house is stone and brick, but the ceilings in the rooms nearest to the workshop are vaulted and so I have nowhere to run cables. Plus a small catenary :o oh yes I'd get permission for that ;D

The fire brigade want new build in the village to have sprinklers because their response time is about an hour; part timers on call out.

Scotspark, wireless doesn't work well here, perhaps the thickness of the walls is the problem.

I've seen a burglar alarm with two fire zones, perhaps that is the way forward.

Thanks again

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 29^th, 2008, 8:03am

Ah well Woodlice looks a bleeding great big siren or klaxon on the outer wall of the shed, hope you have considerate neighbours.

As for catenary used in listed buildings - the thatched I worked on the supply to an oak office in the garden was black SWA which ran up the lovely white cob wall and into the house.

Fire brigade an hour away. Geez things are stacked up against you Woodlice.

OK, OK a cross linked alarm this time bring it underground and into the house dig up the kitchen floor. I know it's a stone floor and as a Listed Building cannot do that either.

The best option is to let the shed burn down and send the bill to replace it to the eejit that keeps telling you that you cannot do this and cannot do that.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by woodsmith on Jul 29^th, 2008, 8:32am

I don't think the neighbours would mind, if my workshop goes then so will both our houses.

The kitchen floor is oak, of course. Still not digging it up though :P

If you think I have it bad, some friends in the village are being forced to take out flues, windows etc because the builder, who did the barn conversion, didn't get permission to fit them. They can't claim against the builder as he is on the verge of bancrupcy so I'm told.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 29^th, 2008, 8:50am

Ah ya old softy Woodlice - rip up the oak floor run the cable and stick down a 'nice' bit of laminate :P

Builders going 'bust' is the norm aint it? It is how they get out of their obligations and not pay their suppliers then start up again once they have spent their ill-gotten gains on extended holidays in the Carribean.

OK so it sounds like a klaxon then (excuse the pun) - just hope and pray that you do not get many false trips.

The Duplo fits the bill quite nicely Woodlice http://www.klaxonsignals.com/ind-specialist-pages/duplo.htm that should wake you up and the residents of Basingstoke at 127db ;D

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by woodsmith on Jul 29^th, 2008, 11:52am

Oh no that's not loud enough to wake me, you might hear it and give me a ring though ;D

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 29^th, 2008, 12:01pm

Oh OK I will bring you a cuppa as well, is that with sugar with or without milk and do you want a biccy wth it?

Hold on a mo.... I have the answer.... I will live in your shed (free of rent of course) and use this http://www.northants.police.uk/museum_new/exhibits/11/siren.htm

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by woodsmith on Jul 29^th, 2008, 2:22pm

No sugar for me, or Judith ;)

That's it then, you take up residence and become a FOOLS (Fire Officer Overseeing Loud Siren) ;D

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 29^th, 2008, 4:00pm

Great now ....

Salary is £380,000 per annum with a guaranteed annual bonus of £120,000.

The benefits package to include -

- Company car (Audi R8 in black)
- Fuel for car both business (not much of that) plus private use
- Private BUPA cover level-A
- 3 months holiday a year
- Overtime at 2X Sundays 6X
- Guraranteed annual review with minimum of 10% increase.
- Mobile phone (made by Ventura ;))
- After five years service paid leave for 6 months in Tortolla BVI (Little Dix Bay hotel) all paid for and I mean ALL paid for.

Agreed?

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Jul 29^th, 2008, 4:17pm

I would go for the aico with a couple RF bases. I reckon you would be suprised who far they can be used - even with thick walls.

You can get relay bases for the aico too. You could use this base to trigger a 240v siren or something if you wanted. They also do a wall switch for test/silence.

It would not be to BS5839, but I don't think that is an issue for you....

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 29^th, 2008, 4:25pm

Thanks for putting the thread back on track Lec.

I agree wireless IS the way to go they MUST work Woodlice how can they not? They are not reliant on Crystal Palace giving you a good signal ;)

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by woodsmith on Jul 29^th, 2008, 5:05pm

Thanks Lec, that is probably the best way to go. I'm covered either way if I fit the wireless and a relay unit.

PS The reason I think wireless doesn't work is that the DECT phones only work in adjacent rooms and the wireless broadband, despite being one of the more powerful transmiters, only just works one room away.

And Ray, the job offer is off. I wouldn't employ anyone with such low aspirations ::) ;D

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 29^th, 2008, 5:55pm

Phew!

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Jul 29^th, 2008, 7:34pm

They have them here.

The radio base has a relay base in the same unit.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Jul 29^th, 2008, 7:40pm

Just seen their prices :o

I can get a quote for you if you want, and you can pay me...

The ones with the rechargeable batteries are more expensive than the ones which have a 9v PP3. The ones with the PP3 are just fine though.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 29^th, 2008, 8:01pm

Lectrician wrote on Jul 29^th, 2008, 7:40pm:

The ones with the PP3 are just fine though.

Well they would be if anyone other than Woodlice were involved ;D

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by woodsmith on Jul 29^th, 2008, 8:58pm

wrote on Jul 29^th, 2008, 8:01pm:

Lectrician wrote on Jul 29^th, 2008, 7:40pm:

The ones with the PP3 are just fine though.

Well they would be if anyone other than Woodlice were involved ;D

Cheeky sod, but erm you could be right. ;D

Lec you are right these things are bloody expensive, even for me ::) it's the radio linking that bangs the price up.

Thanks, I really apreciate your offer to get them trade, but I am not completely convinced they will work with my house. I need to put the unit somewhere in the hall, when I mentioned fitting it in the kitchen or living room (nearest the workshop) I was given one of those looks by Mrs W that freeze stone.

With the cost of all these units I can probably get a specialist in to wire the system for not a lot more, perhaps I should try to get a quote.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Jul 29^th, 2008, 9:05pm

The radio bases have a relay in them that you can use for the external sounder you mentioned, negating the need to radio link to the house.

There is also a bog standard relay base available which is cheaper than the radio version, although I cannot find one on line.

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by RabbitRabbit on Jul 29^th, 2008, 9:26pm

Cos I am cheeky ferker Woodlice - how long have you 'known' me?

But batteries!! I mean who woud want batteries in a thing like an alarm FFS. They go flat (like Mrs W ;D). That is me in the dog house big time :-D

I agree sod the wireless alarm. Go for a bloody great big klaxon on the outside, I promise you that one I linked to WILL wake you up Woody (and Mrs. Woody, and the cat and the dog and the goldfish) ;)

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Jul 30^th, 2008, 6:53am

The PP3's in the aico are battery backup, only ever being used when the mains fails.

I have not ever had to change a PP3 in a mains smoke.

They do do lithium cells instead of the battery, and these stay charged, but they cost so much more!

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by scotspark on Jul 30^th, 2008, 10:33pm

I didn't think prices looked that bad maybe i am paying to much for my aico stuff??????????????

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Jul 31^st, 2008, 6:37pm

This one We pay around £8 I think

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by scotspark on Aug 6^th, 2008, 11:24pm

http://www.allaboutelectrics.co.uk/doc/12/vid/319/AICO_IONISATION_SMOKE_ALARM.html

I pay about a tenner for these

:( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Aug 7^th, 2008, 6:52am

I picked up four yesterday for a rewire we are doing, and was shocked to find they no longer come supplied with a PP3 battery! They have not made them cheaper though!

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by scotspark on Aug 7^th, 2008, 5:52pm

that can't be right

surely that must have just been some error at packing????????????

Title: Re: Fire/smoke alarm for workshop
Post by Lectrician on Aug 9^th, 2008, 9:34am

Apparently not - I queried the wholesaler, who had recieved several complaints.