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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Electrical Questions >> Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1240053708 Message started by agebous on Apr 18^th, 2009, 12:21pm

Title: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by agebous on Apr 18^th, 2009, 12:21pm

I am renting a flat which has a detached garage. I want to use the garage as an art studio (I am a painter). It has no mains electricity and since I do not own it I cannot make any irreversible changes to it. It is also a fair distance from the main building.

I want to find a way to create sufficient working light. I have researched on the internet and think the best way would be to use a deep cycle battery- charging it in my flat using a charger- to power perhaps LED lights or similar. However all the lights I have seen which can be powered by a battery do not seem bright enough. ( I wondered about using LED inspection lights, for example). I cannot use solar lighting fixed to the garage- in this area it would probably be stolen!

Can anyone give me any ideas about how to proceed? I am not very technical.

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by Zambezi on Apr 18^th, 2009, 3:44pm

Can you not run an extension lead out to the garage, ideally with an RCD to protect it? When you are done you just wind it back up.

You do get rechargeable fluorescent lights that last a few hours on a charge but fluorescent and LED light may not be the best for painting in, it is not very "natural" light.
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=DUDTYPIJCSXLSCSTHZPCFFQ?_dyncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=53920&searchbutton.x=0&searchbutton.y=0&searchbutton=submit#reviews

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by LSpark on Apr 18^th, 2009, 10:55pm

This garage doesn't sound like the best place to paint, but if it's the only place then running an extension lead down to it and then winding it up after each "session" could be a good idea. Be sure to use an extension lead featuring an RCD or "Power Breaker" for safety, and be sure it's long enough and run safely so not to cause any trip hazards or damage to the flex.

You could then use a couple of flourescent lights with high colour rendition lamps such as these. You could screw them up to existing roof timbers without causing great damage, and then have a plug on the end to plug them into your extension lead.

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by big_all on Apr 18^th, 2009, 11:12pm

i read it as a garage on a seperate area in a block over public or private land!!!

so extension may not be an option :o

although an agreement with somone backing onto the garage could be a route to power

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by agebous on Apr 19^th, 2009, 1:04am

Thanks for the messages.

The garage is in a separate block- some distance from the main building and our flat is on the 5th floor of that: using an extension lead is out of the question!

The freestanding inspection lamp looks useful but I doubt even a couple of these would be bright enough...

Any further recommendations would be welcome.

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by agebous on Apr 19^th, 2009, 1:20am

Had a new thought: could I get a deep cycle battery and an inverter, and thus use more powerful lights?

Saw an inverter here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/400-Watt-Mains-Power-Inverter-12V-to-240V-800W-Peak_W0QQitemZ220391282186QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories?hash=item220391282186&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by plugwash on Apr 19^th, 2009, 1:25am

It's certainly an option, I saw someone over on diynot who had done it with an inverter feeding a CFL.

Full size flourescent tubes may also be an option but will probablly require a bigger battery for accepable runtime.

Incandescent and halogen lights are probablly out of the question (efficiancy is very important when running on battery).

Best to switch on the battery side if you can, you will need a beefier switch but it avoids leaving the inverter on unnessacerally.

After allowing for inefficiancy in the inverter a rule of thumb is 1A input for every 100W output so if you have say 100W of load and want to run for four hours at a time you will need at least a 40AH battery (and I'd probablly double that figure given how optimistic battery manfuacturers tend to be in rating thier batteries)

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by Zambezi on Apr 19^th, 2009, 9:25am

....and a trolley to push the battery backwards and forwards for charging.

It may be worth getting a smaller inverter to drain the battery less, something like
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=218810

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by LSpark on Apr 19^th, 2009, 12:03pm

Stick with the flourescents, but certainly an inverter is a good idea. It would be sensible to buy carefully though as some are more effiecient than others.

There would be a question of earthing though, one might have to drive an earth rod down or use only class-2 fittings, which could be tricky.

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by Goodsparks on Apr 20^th, 2009, 3:23pm

Quote:

After allowing for inefficiancy in the inverter a rule of thumb is 1A input for every 100W output so if you have say 100W of load and want to run for four hours at a time you will need at least a 40AH battery (and I'd probablly double that figure given how optimistic battery manfuacturers tend to be in rating thier batteries)

12v inverter it will be more like 1A input to 10w of output. Thats a bloody big battery to be lugging upstairs every day to charge. Might be better with a skylight.

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by LSpark on Apr 20^th, 2009, 8:00pm

I thought a skylight would be good too, but he did state no irreversible changes, and skylights aren't much good at night!.

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by Y3 on Apr 20^th, 2009, 8:16pm

What about a diesel generator? Bit noisey but once in position, you can leave it there.

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by wozzy on Apr 20^th, 2009, 10:36pm

[edit]hint at an illegal method of getting power removed

plugwash[/edit]

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by CWatters on Apr 21^st, 2009, 7:53am

If there is a lift I'd get a big deep discharge battery - perhaps 120AH or more and use a trolly as suggested. The bigger the battery the lower the discharge percentage and the longer it will live (eg 50AH taken from a 60AH battery is worse than 50AH taken from a 120AH battery).

You will also need a good charger. Try for one with at least a 10A rating or the battery may not be recharged overnight. A charger with a "Permanant float" setting is also a good idea. I find batteries live much longer if you keep them on permanant float when they aren't being used. eg after use, immediatly recharge them then put the switch onto permanant float if not done automaticaly. Leave them on float until needed or when away. Never leave the battery to self discharge flat.

Forget LED as they aren't really powerful enough yet. The efficiency isn't much better than a tube either. Tubes are sometimes available in different colour temperatures so if the one supplied is a horrible colour experiment.

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by LSpark on Apr 21^st, 2009, 5:53pm

You don't want coloured tubes, you want full spectrum tubes, they aren't really coloured, they are a natural spectrum similar to daylight, CRI of 1A if you get the best ones. I have some myself, they just can't be beaten for natural light.

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by agebous on Apr 25^th, 2009, 11:01am

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Having rejected the generator idea I am now reconsidering, but need a place to run an exhaust pipe out. Not sure how large/powerful the generator would need to be. Is this one big enough?
http://www.bexpress.co.uk/pageview.php?page=show_product&ecommerce_stockcode=eu10i&gclid=CIzS1eHgi5oCFcQw3wodFiIFFQ

There is another 2000kw, but twice the price, obviously.

The option of using a 120ah battery, trolly and decent charger seems the most straightforward, with flourescent bulbs. Can anyone predict how much light I would get out of this setup?

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by Zambezi on Apr 25^th, 2009, 11:35am

Your best bet would be to stick the genny outside because exhasting one out of your garage could be an issue.
The genny you linked to is a very nice little unit but very expensive. You should be able to pick something with a similar rating for 1/3 of the price. 1000W is plenty for running lights but no good if you want to plug in your kettle ;D

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by big_all on Apr 25^th, 2009, 11:37am

we need to know exactlywhat you plan to do in your workshop!!!

if its woodwork 2000w would be the absolute minimum to power table saws routers

best way to have a gen is in a insulated box around 3 times the size off the genny with lots off ventilation wia baffles to kill the sound and exhaust channeld out side

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by scotspark on Apr 25^th, 2009, 12:35pm

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/25850/Power-Tools/Generators/Sumo-SMK36GEN-900W-Generator?cm_re=SEARCHPROMO-_-GENERATOR-_-25850#reviews

lot cheaper

Title: Re: Lighting a detached garage for use as a workshop
Post by Zambezi on Apr 25^th, 2009, 12:36pm

I want to use the garage as an art studio (I am a painter).
AFAIK it is just for lighting.