Ask The Trades - Print Page

Ask The Trades
https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Electrical Questions >> What city & guilds? https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1242396058 Message started by trowelhead on May 15^th, 2009, 3:00pm

Title: What city & guilds?
Post by trowelhead on May 15^th, 2009, 3:00pm

A drinking buddy of mine is seriously thinking of training to become one of your goodselves.
We were both looking online at local colleges that did c&g electrical courses,and as we are both thick,got totally bamboozled. ::)
One says to do course A you need to do course B first etc etc etc,then you need to do part 2,wheres part 1 then?
What i'm looking for is what courses you need to do and in what order?
He is thinking of going the part time learning route,keeping his day job(if he can!) and see were it leads,but would also consider leaving work(talk of redundancy :'() and studying full time if he can.

Thanks lads.

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Y3 on May 16^th, 2009, 11:05am

~~Does this actually generate custom for you, advertising on here? Would have thought having your own website and promoting it would be a better option?~~

Becoming an electrician and gas engineer are probs the best trades to be in at the mo, while the politicians are ruining the country's economy! Having your own site would be a very good way to reach out to the absolute thousands who might be in a position to re-train currently.

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Zambezi on May 16^th, 2009, 11:21am

????

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by trowelhead on May 16^th, 2009, 3:50pm

Y3 :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Lectrician on May 16^th, 2009, 4:30pm

I am guessing a 'chubby' post has been deleted?

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by SparkyB on May 16^th, 2009, 5:57pm

Im currently on a C&G course, Fast Track Level2, as I started a C&G course about 18yrs ago (2360), so I was able to go in this course rather than start from the beginning.
If you have no experience of electrical installations, you would need to start from the beginning... NVQ level1, and work your way up. Depending on how much experience you need / want, will determine if you need to progress to level 3, ie, if you want to specialise in a certain type of electrical maintenance etc. However, you will not be able to just go out there & do a re-wire (for example) even after level 3, unles you do a sub, course like JIB / Nappit etc (NVQ) or equivelant. Doing that along side your course, (level3) would enable you to go out there do the job & sign it off yourself! Well so I'm led to believe. ;)

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by SparkyB on May 16^th, 2009, 7:10pm

Check out this site...
www.electricalqualifications.co.uk/adult.php ;)

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Y3 on May 16^th, 2009, 10:43pm

wrote on May 15^th, 2009, 3:00pm:

It just appeared random to myself, sounded like what chubby would write, thats all. :-?

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Y3 on May 16^th, 2009, 10:58pm

wrote on May 16^th, 2009, 5:57pm:

Im currently on a C&G course, Fast Track Level2, as I started a C&G course about 18yrs ago (2360), so I was able to go in this course rather than start from the beginning.

wrote on May 16^th, 2009, 5:57pm:

If you have no experience of electrical installations, you would need to start from the beginning... NVQ level1, and work your way up.

That doesnt ring true, NVQ level 3 is the standard that all wanna be electricians work to. All the students that go to my old college enter straight in at level 3, like me and my class did. I had no previous knowledge of electrics and I havent done maths at that time since school, I was 24 when i started electrics, just to give you some idea of time since I left school. I got an E for maths too!

wrote on May 16^th, 2009, 5:57pm:

unles you do a sub, course like JIB / Nappit etc (NVQ) or equivelant. Doing that along side your course, (level3) would enable you to go out there do the job & sign it off yourself! Well so I'm led to believe. ;)

That also doesnt seem right, having an NVQ level 3 doesnt entitle you to be able to sign your own work off, you need C&G 2391 and 2381 as a minimum, oh, and at least 2 years experience within your field of electrics (Domestic, Commercial or Industrial) and sign up to NICEIC, NAPIT etc... You could have your own business and have one of your work force (maybe more depending on size of company) to be the qualified supervisor.

Carl

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by ChubbyPhaseWire on May 17^th, 2009, 9:16am

It just appeared random to myself, sounded like what chubby would write, thats all. :-?

:-?

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Y3 on May 17^th, 2009, 9:38am

wrote on May 17^th, 2009, 9:16am:

It just appeared random to myself, sounded like what chubby would write, thats all. :-?

:-?

Do you not advertise your traing courses on here? I think I have seen one or two. Anyway, I think I might have dug myself a deep enough hole, so I am just about to jump in! :o

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by trowelhead on May 18^th, 2009, 10:22pm

Thanks for the link guys,passed onto my mate. :)
Just one thing though,looking at the answers given,how do you become a sparky without being an employee to someone?Or can't you?

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Zambezi on May 18^th, 2009, 10:37pm

You will need work experience and the only way you will get this is by working with a spark. So the short answer is that you will probably have to work for a company, to get the relevant experience because most self employed sparks don't cover all the required practical modules that you will require for your course.

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Y3 on May 18^th, 2009, 10:58pm

Its the same if you wanna be a gas engineer, you gotta work with one first. Also, tell your m8 to join the army or navy or similar, they get their courses for free, become fully qualified on paper and know absolutlely f*ck all about installing electrics. They come out to civy street, get a job all but straight away but dont know what to do (but they are fully qualified???)

I remember once when I knew F all myself, I was working for my first firm and this bloke started working for us who came out of the army, he was fully qualified. We were on a job and he asked me how he was to go about putting a bit of trunking in to supply a spurred socket from an existing one on the ring, he got paid the full rate by the way and knew far less than me (at the time, I didnt know much, but I knew how to put a piece of trunking on the wall).

Your mate can walk off the street and do the part P course and then work in domestic properties and have no previous knowledge, or need to have worked with a spark for experience, but that is all he could do though.

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by dingbat on May 19^th, 2009, 7:17am

wrote on May 18^th, 2009, 10:58pm:

Your mate can walk off the street and do the part P course and then work in domestic properties...

I wish people would stop spreading this particular strand of misinformation.

1. There is no such thing as a Part P Course, no such thing as a Part P Qualification, no such thing as a Part P Electrician. (Whatever the marketing suggests.)

2. The principal requirements of Part P of the Building Regulations are stated in a single sentence, which requires 'reasonable provision' to be made for safety in domestic installations.

3. The most regular way of making this reasonable provision is held to be compliance with BS 7671, The IEE Wiring Regulations.

4. BS 7671 requires "Good workmanship by competent persons..." (Reg 134.1.1)

5. A 'competent person' is somebody with "...sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the work undertaken..."

ANYBODY with such competence, which includes the correct compilation of relevant certification, could satisfy the legal requirements of the Building Regulations, regardless of where or how they had acquired that competence.

And just for good measure - there are plenty of 'fully-qualified' electricians who would be judged incompetent by those criteria and plenty of non-electricians who could very easily acquire the necessary competence.

(Registration with a government-endorsed 'competent persons scheme' is another discussion altogether.)

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Y3 on May 19^th, 2009, 6:24pm

I understand what your saying, but people with no experience pay £2500 or so to do a "Part P" course, so that they can be a domestic installer. Is this not right? I know a couple people who have done this thats all.

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by LS on May 20^th, 2009, 5:56am

I think Dingbat is just trying to stop all the "association" crap.

If I'm correct, there are a few courses, e.g. the EAL, that is specifically designed to meet the basic criteria registering bodies have for registering you on a defined scope scheme to sign off your work under part-p requirements, I would think that it would be ideal for those who wish to change career and go into domestic work - however you would still need to work with other electricians to gain the vital experience.

If someone wanted to change career and become a "proper" electrician then they would best spend their time and money on attaining the full vocational certificates and relevant experience.

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by dingbat on May 20^th, 2009, 7:24am

Be careful what you wish for, Carl.

Many industry-trained electricians have a natural, negative, gut reaction to the idea of people 'walking off the street' into an electrical career.

But, if you had such a closed shop as many sparks imagine should apply, then so would other trades and professions. There would be no room for people to change career and severe restriction in employment practices.

As it is, the regulations - statutory and non-statutory - simply require persons to be competent (see Definitions in BS 7671 and eg 16 of EAWR) and installation work in small, single phase installations ain't exactly 'rocket surgery'.

Whatever the rules, you'll never stop the chancers, but there have to be routes to competence for those with the right intentions.

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by Y3 on May 20^th, 2009, 9:31pm

dingbat wrote on May 20^th, 2009, 7:24am:

Be careful what you wish for, Carl.

What do you mean, im not wishing?

Title: Re: What city & guilds?
Post by dingbat on May 21^st, 2009, 7:19am

It's just an expression.

It's a very common human reaction to change to suggest alternatives without really considering their implications.