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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Electrical Questions >> So What https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1243257255 Message started by ChubbyPhaseWire on May 25^th, 2009, 2:14pm

Title: So What
Post by ChubbyPhaseWire on May 25^th, 2009, 2:14pm

Light bulbs will no longer be labelled in watts under new EU rules.
It has decided to replace the energy measurement - named after the 18th century British inventor James Watt - with 'lumens', which identify how much light a bulb gives out.
:(

Title: Re: So What
Post by Lectrician on May 25^th, 2009, 2:42pm

Umm.....Presumably they will still put the wattage on the lamp somewhere to enable the correct selection of transformer, dimmer and overcurrent device etc!

Title: Re: So What
Post by The_Trician on May 25^th, 2009, 3:10pm

More Euro-shite.

The sooner we are out of bloody Europe the better.

TT

Title: Re: So What
Post by ChubbyPhaseWire on May 25^th, 2009, 4:22pm

Lectrician wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 2:42pm:

Umm.....Presumably they will still put the wattage on the lamp somewhere to enable the correct selection of transformer, dimmer and overcurrent device etc!

Under the new labelling system, due to be introduced in September next year, a 60W light bulb will be renamed with its equivalent, 800Lm. ;)

Title: Re: So What
Post by Lectrician on May 25^th, 2009, 5:07pm

They must still provide the wattage though. There is no way they can ommit it.

We can not be expected to know what current a certain type or even make of lamp is going to draw by the amount of lumens it produces.

Title: Re: So What
Post by Y3 on May 25^th, 2009, 8:46pm

There is probably more to the story that chub isnt letting on, which he is so famous for doing on here, which in turn winds "certain" people up. Maybe they will bring out a Lumens to Wattage conversion chart? ;D

It sounds too silly to be true, why change something that has been around for a hundred years or so? (I dont know the exact yearage)

TT, I dont think we will ever get away from the EU, did you see jonathan dimbleby the other day? The woman from UKIP stating that 75% (i think??) of the guidelines that our government works to is governed by the EU. I certainly dont want us to be part of it and dont know why have have become part of it, but its not through the british publics permission that we have??? I cant understand that!! Tossers

Title: Re: So What
Post by Lectrician on May 25^th, 2009, 9:03pm

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 8:46pm:

. Maybe they will bring out a Lumens to Wattage conversion chart? ;D

Thats impossible as every different type of light source (high pressure sodium, low pressure sodium, high pressure mercury (MBF), Flourescents, metal halide, halogen, cold cathode etc etc etc all have a different lumen output per watt - thats what makes some light sources favourable to others.

You also have to consider that some manufacturers are likely to be more efficent than others.

At the end of the day watts are watts.

Title: Re: So What
Post by CWatters on May 25^th, 2009, 9:25pm

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 2:14pm:

That's great news. Long overdue. No longer will manufacturers of wimpy LED bulbs be able to claim that their bulbs are "equivalent to a 60W" when actually they produce less light than a 20W.

However in my view they should put three things on the box...

1) The brightness in Lumens
2) The efficiency in Lumens per Watt
3) The wattage.

For reference:

A 50W halogen downlight produces around 800-900 Lumens. A 35W Halogen produces around 500-600 Lumens.

Title: Re: So What
Post by londonman on May 25^th, 2009, 9:48pm

CWatters wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 9:25pm:

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 2:14pm:

4/ How long they take to reach full brightness after switch-on
5/ Whether or not they may cause migraines
6/ What heavy metals have been used in their manufacture

Title: Re: So What
Post by CWatters on May 25^th, 2009, 9:57pm

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 8:46pm:

It sounds too silly to be true, why change something that has been around for a hundred years or so?

It's mainly because the efficiency of light bulbs hasn't changed much for a 100 years. The problem is LEDs. We are already in the strange position of 11W LEDs producing more light than a 13W CFL.

In the future we will also see 9W LEDs from manufacturer A producing more light than a 13W LED from manufacturer B. Which is better? You can't tell unless you know how many Lumens they produce.

Title: Re: So What
Post by CWatters on May 25^th, 2009, 10:12pm

Quote:

author=londonman link=1243257255/8#8 date=1243284511
4/ How long they take to reach full brightness after switch-on
5/ Whether or not they may cause migraines
6/ What heavy metals have been used in their manufacture

Perhaps. These are mostly CFL issues.

Perhaps surprisingly there is no scientific evidence they cause headaches. Modern CFLs actually switch faster than incandescent so they should flicker less. If there is a problem it's likely to be with older linear tubes.

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/compact-fluorescent-lightbulb-migraines-47010709

Quote:

"We have not published a study linking CFLs and migraine," Karen Manning, head of membership support for the Migraine Action Association, told The Daily Green. "The recent media activity has been in response to anecdotal reports we have received from many migraine sufferers who have experienced adverse health effects following introducing low energy light bulbs into their homes. I am not aware of any scientific evidence on this subject, but as an Association we would welcome this to confirm there are real health issues affecting migraine sufferers."

http://www.migraine.ie/index.php?id=258

Quote:

The Migraine Association of Ireland are not aware of any scientific evidence which states that CFL light-bulbs cause adverse health effects for migraine sufferers.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=flickering-fallacy-cfl-bulb-headaches

Quote:

Flickering Fallacy: The Myth of Compact Fluorescent Lightbulb Headaches
snip
Sometimes headaches are due to eyestrain from inadequate lighting. When replacing an incandescent bulb with a CFL, pay attention to the lumens, which indicate the amount of light a bulb gives out (watts measure the energy use of a bulb, not the light generated).

Title: Re: So What
Post by LS on May 26^th, 2009, 12:06am

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 4:22pm:

Under the new labelling system, due to be introduced in September next year, a 60W light bulb will be renamed with its equivalent, 800Lm. ;)

Love to know where you get your 60W tungsten lamps that provide 800lm!

But back to the subject, I think chubbs may be distorting this topic as y3 suggested. The fact is that most lamps already carry an energy rating that is calculated by the watts/lumens calculation and is also partialy influenced by how long the lamp lasts, don't ask me what the technocalulus sum is but that's how it is. Lumens *should* also be displayed with the energy rating, however on occasion they are ommited, I won't name and shame but the makers know who they are.

Title: Re: So What
Post by Y3 on May 26^th, 2009, 4:58pm

Lectrician wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 9:03pm:

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 8:46pm:

. Maybe they will bring out a Lumens to Wattage conversion chart? ;D

Somebody is lacking in a sense of humour, notice the smiley face at the end? ;D

Title: Re: So What
Post by Lectrician on May 26^th, 2009, 5:04pm

Maybe I didn't think you were funny [smiley=angry3.gif]

Title: Re: So What
Post by ChubbyPhaseWire on May 26^th, 2009, 5:27pm

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 8:46pm:

There is probably more to the story that chub isnt letting on, which he is so famous for doing on here, which in turn winds "certain" people up.

Its called a sprat

;)

Title: Re: So What
Post by Y3 on May 26^th, 2009, 5:55pm

Lectrician wrote on May 26^th, 2009, 5:04pm:

Maybe I didn't think you were funny [smiley=angry3.gif]

Nope, your a male equivalent to an Ice Queen (actually forget the equivalent part ;D )

Title: Re: So What
Post by Y3 on May 26^th, 2009, 5:56pm

wrote on May 26^th, 2009, 5:27pm:

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 8:46pm:

There is probably more to the story that chub isnt letting on, which he is so famous for doing on here, which in turn winds "certain" people up.

Its called a sprat

;)

What do you mean?

Title: Re: So What
Post by ChubbyPhaseWire on May 26^th, 2009, 8:22pm

wrote on May 26^th, 2009, 5:56pm:

wrote on May 26^th, 2009, 5:27pm:

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 8:46pm:

There is probably more to the story that chub isnt letting on, which he is so famous for doing on here, which in turn winds "certain" people up.

Its called a sprat

;)

What do you mean?

It's a Kalooki term ;)

Title: Re: So What
Post by Y3 on May 26^th, 2009, 10:31pm

;D ;D ;D

Sorry Chub, still not with you on these words ur using?

Title: Re: So What
Post by Lectrician on May 27^th, 2009, 6:55am

Google or a dictionary?

Title: Re: So What
Post by Y3 on May 27^th, 2009, 7:38am

I guess looking at the meaning of Sprat, which is a small fish, Chubb is throwing out the bait to see how many people bite. I kind of knew that anyway if you saw my first reply. It was those two words he came out with that confused me a little.

Title: Re: So What
Post by dingbat on May 27^th, 2009, 8:24am

Here you go, Carl:

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/sprat+to+catch+a+mackerel.html

...and who knows what Chubbs is really fishing for.

(You're not fourteen, are you Carl? ;) ;) ;) )

Title: Re: So What
Post by Y3 on May 27^th, 2009, 7:11pm

dingbat wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 8:24am:

(You're not fourteen, are you Carl? ;) ;) ;) )

No, Why?

Title: Re: So What
Post by LS on May 28^th, 2009, 2:39am

He's getting lonely Carl, watch out ;D

Title: Re: So What
Post by dingbat on May 28^th, 2009, 6:13am

wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 7:11pm:

dingbat wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 8:24am:

(You're not fourteen, are you Carl? ;) ;) ;) )

No, Why?

He likes 'em young... ;)

Title: Re: So What
Post by Y3 on May 28^th, 2009, 6:55am

dingbat wrote on May 28^th, 2009, 6:13am:

wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 7:11pm:

dingbat wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 8:24am:

(You're not fourteen, are you Carl? ;) ;) ;) )

No, Why?

He likes 'em young... ;)

Your new user name Ding....

Gary (Glitter) ;)

Anyway, just because I didn't know what two words meant doesn't mean I'm thick, I guess that's what you were insinuating by asking if I was 14? >:(

Mind you, Chubbs is a little clever by doing what he does, a lot of people do bite, I'm surprised Lec did. The more times he does this kind of thing the more people are aware of it (well, so you would think). He kind of keeps people on their feet, so to speak.

Title: Re: So What
Post by Lectrician on May 28^th, 2009, 8:02am

I didn't bite :)

I actually think chubbs started a good thread - Any info is good info.

Title: Re: So What
Post by Zambezi on May 28^th, 2009, 8:10am

Lectrician wrote on May 28^th, 2009, 8:02am:

I didn't bite :)

I actually think chubbs started a good thread - Any info is good info.

It was his best effort in the last 12 months!

Title: Re: So What
Post by TibbarTibbar on May 28^th, 2009, 8:45pm

wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 8:46pm:

There is probably more to the story that chub isnt letting on, which he is so famous for doing on here, which in turn winds "certain" people up.

:-? Only a "certain"? is 100% only a "certain"? :P

Title: Re: So What
Post by dingbat on May 29^th, 2009, 6:31pm

wrote on May 28^th, 2009, 6:55am:

Anyway, just because I didn't know what two words meant doesn't mean I'm thick, I guess that's what you were insinuating by asking if I was 14? >:(

::) No Carl, cast your mind back to the idea that Chubbs was on a fishing expedition... and then wonder who or what he might (allegedly) be fishing for...

Anyway, it's good to have you on the forum because you ask questions and take notice of the answers, so I wouldn't be tempted to insult you. :-X

(PS: I blame that Roger - and no, you're not supposed to understand that particular reference, Carl - that's for the Chubster!)

Title: Re: So What
Post by Y3 on May 29^th, 2009, 7:01pm

dingbat wrote on May 29^th, 2009, 6:31pm:

Anyway, it's good to have you on the forum because you ask questions and take notice of the answers, so I wouldn't be tempted to insult you. :-X

Thanx Ding, I love you too ;D

Title: Re: So What
Post by dingbat on May 30^th, 2009, 3:33pm

wrote on May 29^th, 2009, 7:01pm:

Thanx Ding, I love you too ;D

I say, old boy.... steady on, what! (People will talk) ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: So What
Post by Joiner on May 30^th, 2009, 4:25pm

/ How long they take to reach full brightness after switch-on
5/ Whether or not they may cause migraines
6/ What heavy metals have been used in their manufacture

7/ How many blondes it takes to change a bulb