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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Electrical Questions >> immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit? https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1253558509 Message started by al77 on Sep 21^st, 2009, 7:41pm

Title: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Post by al77 on Sep 21^st, 2009, 7:41pm

Would like some help with a little project of mine. I have wired 3 lamps from a loop feed from an existing light fitting. the 3 lamps are controlled by a 1way sw....thats all good...howevvah....
i wish this part of the circuit to be on a timer ( for quite a few hours at a time ) so a dimrail timer sw is not the answer, nor the energy saving types which give you 10 mins or so.

I thought that instead, maybe a pluggable timer could be used instead. Is this possible.....??......for a 13A socket outlet, specifically for the function of the pluggable timer only, to be safely used on a 5A lighting circuit?

Any help would be very much appreciated!!!!

Title: Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Post by Lectrician on Sep 21^st, 2009, 8:35pm

Can't you just use an immersion heater timer?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMTS900.html

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Timers_Index/index.html?source=adwords&kw=immersion%20heater%20timer&gclid=CKShxPK4g50CFWQB4wod0j6t2A

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/89388/Electrical-Supplies/Timers/Mechanical-24-Hour-Immersion-Timer;jsessionid=HCJZQFQ0BH1RICSTHZOCFFY

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/92265/Electrical-Supplies/Timers/Digital-Weekly-Immersion-Timer

Title: Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Post by al77 on Sep 21^st, 2009, 9:05pm

Thanks L for your quick reply..

Never thought of that...sounds plausible though. would that just be a line neut and earth connection then. The timer will be placed just after the feed from existing light fitting (obviously) so would it just be a case of in and out to 1st lamp?

The reason I'd asked about the socket timer was because I have both a spare outlet and pluggable timer already...would that not be safe then??

Again, thanks.

Title: Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Post by Lectrician on Sep 21^st, 2009, 9:14pm

A plug in timer is not ideal.

An immersion timer has a Live & Neutral in and a Live & Neutral out, however, the neutrals are merely commoned internally, so effectively you have a Live In, Live Out and a Neutral connection.

Title: Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Post by CWatters on Sep 22^nd, 2009, 8:58am

Get a good quality make - I've had quite a few problems with a cheap one a similar project I was doing last year. It wasn't the output relay but the control buttons and slider switches that failed for some reason.

You can also get DIN rail mounted timers but perhaps no advantage..
http://www.dustonelectrical.co.uk/products/Industrial/Control+Gear/Din+Rail+Timers/Greenbrook+T80-C+Din+Rail+Timer/373535441

Title: Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Post by al77 on Sep 22^nd, 2009, 1:52pm

Thanks again, thats been very helpful.

Forgive me, but I'm stil unsure if this is going to work L. £2o for a decent immers. timer, so I dont want to fork out unless Im pretty sure of a couple of things.

1. The position in the circuit,
will these connections work if doing a straight swap with the one way sw, bearing in mind th one way sw is fed from 1st lamp, giving you one sw feed to C, and one sw wire from L1....(and an unused Earth.)or...

will these connections work if I drop it in between the existing lamp (which was the last point in the existing circuit) and the 1st lamp.

2. The actual connections,
Dont suppose you have any links to wiring diagram?

3. Are you aware of immers timer being used on a lighting circuit?

Again, many thanks for you're assistance already L

Cheers

Title: Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Post by al77 on Sep 22^nd, 2009, 1:55pm

Thanks to you too CW

Dim rail is of no use...I just require part (the last 3 fittings) of the circuit on a timer.

Thanks for the heads up on cheapos tho....can you reccommend a maker?

Title: Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Post by CWatters on Sep 23^rd, 2009, 8:16am

wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2009, 1:52pm:

Most timers will require a neutral but there are some that don't. They either have a battery inside or they bleed a little power through the load. Google found this one that looks fancy and also works as a regular dimmer... http://www.elkay.co.uk/product.asp?id=3&catid=2

Quote:

will these connections work if I drop it in between the existing lamp (which was the last point in the existing circuit) and the 1st lamp.

Probably not, but it depends what connection you have there.

Quote:

2. The actual connections,
Dont suppose you have any links to wiring diagram?

The one above is designed to replace a switch without a neutral. It will almost certainly come with instructions.

Title: Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Post by CWatters on Sep 23^rd, 2009, 8:20am

wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2009, 1:55pm:

Thanks to you too CW

Dim rail is of no use...I just require part (the last 3 fittings) of the circuit on a timer.

Can you expand on that? You mean you currently have four or more lamps on one switch and you want only the three furthest from the switch to be on a timer?

Sounds like you will need to break into the circuit to seperate them into two groups. Probably time to get an electrician in.

Title: Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Post by al77 on Sep 23^rd, 2009, 9:05pm

Hello again CW

Can you expand on that? You mean you currently have four or more lamps on one switch and you want only the three furthest from the switch to be on a timer?

Sounds like you will need to break into the circuit to seperate them into two groups.

Its a simple domestic light circuit looped-in/loop-out through each rose...as opposed to switches being looped or junction boxes.

I have extended the existing circuit with 3 lamps operated by a 1 way sw....by taking a loop feed from the last point on existing.

The 1way sw is taken from new lamp 1 so has no neutral, just a sw feed and sw return back to lamp 1.

It is only the 3 new lamps i want controlled with the timer...not the full circuit.

I think al hold ma hands up...coz the immers sw seem a bit pricey...esp if its not guaranteed to work.

Manual operation it'll have to be methinks!
Appreciate your time tho bud.

Title: Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Post by CWatters on Sep 24^th, 2009, 7:46am

In which case the one I posted above should be a straight swap for the existing switch. Live Switched, Live and earth.

The only issue might be if the lamps are florescent or LED. If so you must check with the timer maker that it can be used with this type of lamp.

Title: Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Post by sparky415 on Sep 24^th, 2009, 8:19pm

Al77,

Sorry Al but what are you trying to achieve? :-/
Would a PIR sensor not be the thing to use?

(sounds like a bit of rewiring needed)

Title: Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Post by Lectrician on Sep 24^th, 2009, 10:35pm

I am guessing he his trying to provide time control to a couple lights ;) ;D

Title: Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Post by sparky415 on Sep 24^th, 2009, 11:03pm

:-[!

Title: Re: 13A socket outlet on a 5A lighting circuit????????
Post by baz on Sep 29^th, 2009, 11:52pm

CWatters wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2009, 8:58am:

Was that Timeguard, by any chance? I had exactly the same problem with those. First timer the off/timed swich was faulty and the program buton was tricky on the second one. >:(

Title: Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Post by CWatters on Sep 30^th, 2009, 9:47am

Yes was Timeguard as it happens. The slider switch seemed to be the problem in my case.

Title: Re: immerser timer on a 5A lighting circuit?
Post by LS on Sep 30^th, 2009, 8:32pm

The only good thing about timegaurd is the 3-year garuntee, which you need because most of their stuff is sh!te.