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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Carpentry Questions >> FENSA reg for replacing timber window https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1088022426 Message started by jasonB on Jun 23^rd, 2004, 9:27pm

Title: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by jasonB on Jun 23^rd, 2004, 9:27pm

Had a client ask me to quote for making & replacing a timber window & frame which I'm not too keen to do anyway. Do I need to be a member of FENSA to fit replacement timber windows as I know its required for PVC? Also should the window be made to comply with part L or can I make an exact match to the original (approx 100 yrs old casement)

Jason

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by Learner Turner on Jun 24^th, 2004, 4:42pm

Jason,

You need to be a member of FENSA to fit any type of window, be it aluminium, PVC or timber.

Also, the replacement window would have to comply with Document L, unless the building was a listed one, in which case it may not be required to.

To be honest, you would probably be best off out of it, and leave it to a specialist window company who should be conversant with all the regs etc.

Regards
Gary

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by jasonB on Jun 24^th, 2004, 6:00pm

Thanks LT thats the answer I was looking for, didn't really want the job anyway

Jason

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by splinter on Jun 25^th, 2004, 8:50pm

a bit of a silly question, i spose!
BUT WHAT IS fensa? :)

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by WJOHNM on Jun 25^th, 2004, 9:25pm

does not apply to us in scotland ;D ;D
only applies to england and wales, another governing body to stand in the way >:( >:(
quote from there website:
fensa membership does not guarentee quality of product
or installation,but confirms a members agreement to comply with building regulations applying to the thermal
insulation of window and door installations:

why have it ??? ??? ???
yes we do have to meet building control regulations on
u-values of glazing but thats it ;D ;D ;D
john

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by thescruff on Jun 25^th, 2004, 9:31pm

No quotes please because I shall admit ignorance first.

As I read and understood it, building permission is required if not a member of fensa, which allowed for self certification.

scruff

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by Dewy on Jun 25^th, 2004, 9:31pm

FENSA Limited is the Fenestration Self-Assessment Scheme for companies that install windows and doors in dwellings.

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by splinter on Jun 25^th, 2004, 9:41pm

so.
i can carry on fitting windows and doors as usual :) you lot nearly had me joining another federation that i really didnt need to be in ;)

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by Windy Miller on Jun 25^th, 2004, 9:53pm

Non FENSA people can fit doors & windows as long as they get a visit from the building inspector, who will issue a certificate to confirm that the installation complies with all the regs. This certificate should be retained by the house owner as it may be required by the surveyor when the house is put up for sale.

More red tape!

Windy

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by WJOHNM on Jun 25^th, 2004, 10:00pm

surely if you were fitting windows/doors on a daily bases
it would be better to become a member of fensa.
how much time would be lost with building inspector,etc to gain your certificate ??? ??? ???
anyone a member?
have you self assessed?
john

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by thescruff on Jun 25^th, 2004, 10:17pm

wrote on Jun 25^th, 2004, 10:00pm:

Agreed john, but Jason was doing a one off special.

scruff

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by WJOHNM on Jun 25^th, 2004, 10:23pm

thats what i was thinking scruff,
learner turner and lots of other people on forums think its illegal to fit window/doors unless you are a member.
total rubbish :o :o
john

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by Windy Miller on Jun 26^th, 2004, 5:17am

FENSA details can be found here http://www.fensa.co.uk

Windy

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by Building_Control on Jun 26^th, 2004, 2:57pm

you dont need to be a member of FENSA but when you look at the costs involved.

the local BCO will come and check for safety glass, (if reqd) low E glass, escape window, and ventilation.

if the window firms had not been putting non opening windows in bedrooms so people died in fires we wouldnt have all this...

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by woodsmith on Jun 26^th, 2004, 6:42pm

To fit windows in England and Wales you need to be FENSA registered or get building consent for each job.

FENSA costs
Registration �117
Vetting �235
Annual re-vetting �117
Small businesses need 2 inspections per year
plus document and transaction registration costs
And you have to offer an insurance backed guarantee.

This is all designed to suit the big companies, for someone like myself who used to fit a few windows each year, it is prohibitively expensive. And getting your windows fitted by a FENSA registered company is NO guarantee of decent workmanship. I have seen some appalling jobs done by FENSA registered firms and when the customer complains to FENSA they are told "it is nothing to do with us, contact trading standards" and these firms are still trading and using the FENSA logo.

Last year I went out to give an estimate, one window needed replacing the rest were in excellent condition. So I told the customer to get a FENSA registered firm as it was not cost effective to get the BCO out. They ended up having all their windows replaced as these big firms aren't interested in just changing one. Cost them �3,500, what a rip off.

Sorry this sort of thing really gets me annoyed.

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by splinter on Jun 26^th, 2004, 8:11pm

this is, nearly as bad as what the sparks have to put up with. :)

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by Gromit on Jun 27^th, 2004, 3:40pm

I've been asked to make some replacement French doors, the client doesn't want them double glazed but an exact replica of what's there. Presumably if thats her decision then it's down to her, I'm not gonna get any window police after me am I :)

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by woodsmith on Jun 27^th, 2004, 5:04pm

Gromit when faced with this problem I sometimes repair the old ones ;) (show it on the bill as a repair)

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by Gromit on Jun 29^th, 2004, 12:29am

Thanks Keith

I don't quite understand the consequences of ignoring building regs in this situation.
If I make and fit doors at the clients request that are'nt d/glazed etc. ,
a)who's to know? and b) if this deed is discovered what's gonna happen, is someone gonna force her to take them out?

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by woodsmith on Jun 29^th, 2004, 2:40pm

Gromit I think if you replaced all the windows in a house and billed them for repairing 27 windows then there could be problems for the customer if they ever wanted to sell the house. But if you "repair" one window to match all the existing widows then as you say who is to know? Other than everyone reading this forum :-X

ps The person I refered to as me in a previous post is someone else, I never repair windows with new ones. ::)

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by Gromit on Jun 29^th, 2004, 7:17pm

Thanks Keith, of course we are all talking about hypothetical situations here none of which are likely to happen in real life ;)

Title: Re: FENSA reg for replacing timber window
Post by Building_Control on Jul 8^th, 2004, 11:55pm

alledgedly ;D