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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Building Questions >> Qualifications? https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1089112535 Message started by Mice on Jul 6^th, 2004, 12:15pm

Title: Qualifications?
Post by Mice on Jul 6^th, 2004, 12:15pm

Hello all,
I am trying to get some info as to what would be considered useful qualifications to obtain befor starting out on my own in building maintenance/developing.
I have had some help from the electrical guys but what would be needed for the building side ie. replacing doors and windows,removing walls etc.. I would like to be able to issue guarantees and become a member of a recognised organisation ideally.
All help appreciated.

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by HandyMac on Jul 6^th, 2004, 4:56pm

Be careful about "becoming a member of a recognised trade association". Most of the ones I've seen offer diddly squat to either you or the customer - you pays yer money to make someone else rich and for that dedication you get permission to use their logo.

Andrew

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by ROBBO on Jul 6^th, 2004, 10:01pm

Qualifications mean bollx all when it comes to general building, sparks and plumbing you can learn in college (to a major extent) but a builder is only a good builder through EXPERIENCE... EXPERIENCE...EXPERIENCE.
If you take on a job and dont know exactly what you are doing then you will improvise, doing what you may think is correct but making a hames of it, there is a specific term for this it is "COWBOY BUILDER".
I have been a builder/ plasterer/ roofer for well over twenty years and am still learning new skills constantly.
I know nothing of merit about Electrics or plumbing nor want to.. those for me are specific skilled trades and when I need them I sub them. I dont want to piss on your fire but if you are handy enough get a few years experience behind you with a good builder, if you are any good you will get snapped up and be well appreciated and looked after untill such a time comes that you will not need to be asking the question you have........ because you will have EXPERIENCE ;)

Regards

Robbo.

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by ROBBO on Jul 6^th, 2004, 10:07pm

wrote on Jul 6^th, 2004, 4:56pm:

Couldnt agree more Andrew in fact some of the worse and most unscrupulous builders I have encounterd have been members of trade organisations used as a means of hiding their real identities

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by Mice on Jul 7^th, 2004, 7:23am

Thanks for the replies,
I understand that experience is the main factor which makes all people truly good at what they do but the info I am after is not to make me a builder I just want to be able to carry out the work that I have done before, but as a buisness. For a few years now I have been renovating houses carrying out most of the work myself, but now would like to continue this as a full time job. Building wise I do not wish to carry out any structural work ie. loadbearing walls, extensions etc. but would like to continue to replace windows doors, remove non-load bearing walls, build conservatories etc which I have done for myself and friends and family many times, obviously using cotractors to carry out any work beyond my capabilities. The electrical work I feel confident at carrying out with the relevent Domestic installation qualifications as I install and maintain industrial electrics in my current job, same as with the plumbing(not gas) I would like to get the domestic training required as I have worked on and installed high pressure steam, oil and air systems so pipework is no mystery to me. I am sure that there must be some governing bodies who regulate the installation of double glazing etc who offer training courses so that when I were to sell on a property I would be able to offer guarentees/certificates as I would when I receive the necessary qualifications in the other areas.
As for me gaining experience in the more involved aspects of the building trade I would hope this would come with time.

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by woodsmith on Jul 7^th, 2004, 8:29am

I you look in the carpenters forum there is a thread about fitting windows

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by Mice on Jul 7^th, 2004, 10:21am

Cheers,
I'll take a look.

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by greg on Jul 7^th, 2004, 6:08pm

Mice - when you talk about guarantees, do you mean insurance backed guarantees? If not, then i wouldnt get too hung up about them - if a customer has a problem with your work then they will soon let you know, youll then have to decide wheter their problem is genuine and put right, sometimes, minor problems that are not really a result of your work are to be put right by yourself, once youve explained that its not your problem but that out of goodwill youll sort it (im not talking about problems that are going to cost you a lot of money)
he only trade organisation that i personally feel are worth belonging to are those which you have no choice, ie corgi for gas installers, scheme for electricians who going to self certify, fensa for window fitters etc

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by splinter on Jul 7^th, 2004, 8:52pm

robbo,
youre reply worries me , did you meant a person should go on his own and do bodged work for customers ,until he/she can find the proper way to do it, Dont think ill be phoning you for a free estimate :o ;)

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by ROBBO on Jul 7^th, 2004, 11:23pm

And your inability to understand simple facts worries me splinter, as you did not digest the points I was putting across.
A good quality builder learns his trade through experience with an aptitude for the job he does.
A cowboy builder invariably does not have that experience (or/and apptitude) so simply muddles his way through a job, therefor �if you read my reply again you will observe I advised mice to gain some experience (quote.. a few years) before going out on his own and not to become a cowboy.
And my estimates........ They are not free

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by splinter on Jul 9^th, 2004, 12:28am

robbo,
apoliges for what i wrote .
reread youre post under the infulence off sobriety and understood what you meant.
ps youll all have to put up with the way write /read posts . otherwise ill have to change my to "SORRY" ;)

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by HandyMac on Jul 9^th, 2004, 6:20am

Darn, peace has broken out. And just as it was getting to the stage of broken beer bottles at dawn..... ;)

Andrew

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by woodsmith on Jul 9^th, 2004, 7:46am

Yes, I havn't moderated anything for ages.

This does not mean that I want to. ;) ::) :-X :D

Title: ;DRe: Qualifications?
Post by ROBBO on Jul 9^th, 2004, 10:17pm

wrote on Jul 9^th, 2004, 6:20am:

Darn, peace has broken out. And just as it was getting to the stage of broken beer bottles at dawn..... ;)

Andrew

Who says peace has broken out???
They wouldnt let me on the plane with my broken beer bottles, flick knife, and lum-checkers, so I will now have to drive all the way to Kent. ;D :D ;D :D ;D ;) ;) ;)
Apologies accepted splinter, if thats the worse you ever do mate when you have had a few you wont go far wrong, not like me I have this thing for wandering the house and pissing everywhere when bladdered the back of the t.v.... computer keyboard,... cats basket to name just a few.

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by rabbit_rabbit on Jul 9^th, 2004, 10:25pm

VERY sound thinking and advice ROBBO. Being a spark is NOT that much different, es you can 'learn' in college and yes you can get ya NIC membership BUT when ya alone confronted with a problem there is only YOU to sort it out really and that relys on experience - or put another way "been there done that".

Ray

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by ROBBO on Jul 9^th, 2004, 10:56pm

Like yourself if I am correct, I work alone and agree that expeience is more important than any theoretical training, that is why this forum is so good when you find yourself head scratching with a problem you have not faced before there is always some wise man who will give you the answer you need. Did not mean in any way shape or form to demean the plumbers or sparks by the way with my learn in college remark... as I went on to state, they are very skilled specific trades of which I am constantly in awe seeing as I know nowt about em! reading the sparks forum is like being spoken to in tongues .... undesipherable.
While on the subject of someone knowing everything I am having a spot of bother with aching bones as the years pass me by so would appreciate a prompt response from some wise sage on how to arrest the passing of time........ Also while your at it the winner of tommorrows 3.30 at Kempton and the chemical ingredients for successfull D.I.Y, Alchemy.
Come on this is NOVOSERVE "ask the trade" We can solve any problem ;D

Title: Re: Qualifications?
Post by The_Trician on Sep 8^th, 2004, 7:51pm

Just back to the qualifications thing - don't City & Guilds still do a brick-laying course? Not 'old English' or 'Stretcher' courses but ones which lead to a recognised trade qualification?
I think they used encompass theory behind structures, things like knowing what size lintel to choose for a given apeture etc?

NVQs? wouldn't bother with em - its just the govt's way of attempting to fast-track people into trades which presently have a shortfall in manpower.
C&G courses are different and of higher quality - or they used to be???

TT