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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Carpentry Questions >> fixing to stone walls https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1089732299 Message started by mr_spanton on Jul 13^th, 2004, 4:24pm

Title: fixing to stone walls
Post by mr_spanton on Jul 13^th, 2004, 4:24pm

Can anyone offer advice please?
What do you need to watch out for when fixing door linings (or any thing else) to a stone wall? The one I may well have to deal with is sandstone, but is rendered so I dont know yet if its random stone or squarish blocks. Would it be feasible to use wooden wedges (if I can find the mortar gaps) or would plug type fastenings be better. ??? Any tips & advice very welcome. Thanks
Mr Spanton

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by HandyMac on Jul 13^th, 2004, 4:33pm

Whilst you might need something more substantial, don't rule out Gripfill if all else fails. Or Pinkfill if you want it to bond fast.

With something like a door lining/frame it might only need to be held in place rather than acquire strength from the bond.

Andrew

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by big_all on Jul 13^th, 2004, 5:29pm

one way of doing it would be with say a
19 mm mortar gap
you take a bit of wood about 25% more 25mm
thick you then shave off opposing diagonal edges
untill you have a proppeler shaped bit of wood of
19mm you then bang it in the twist holds it in
if it happens to be 19mm you just cut a bit of
two by one sawn about 2 inches long into the wall
end grain showing

a little concern about grip fill andrew is sand stone
is a bit crumbly and might just pull a layer off

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by WJOHNM on Jul 13^th, 2004, 5:34pm

as we scot's know it big_all
a dook!!!!!!!! ;) ;)
john

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by HandyMac on Jul 13^th, 2004, 6:10pm

wrote on Jul 13^th, 2004, 5:29pm:

a little concern about �grip fill andrew is sand stone is a bit crumbly and might just pull a layer off

Yes, I agree that would be a concern, but if there's no tension between the wall and the fitment it might serve a purpose just to hold something in place.

Andrew

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by big_all on Jul 13^th, 2004, 7:11pm

sorry andrew read your answer [glb]PROPERLY [/glb] this time:o :o
and what you said as filling a space of course
is spot on ::) ::)

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by mr_spanton on Jul 13^th, 2004, 8:43pm

thanks for your responses lads :)
What is gripfill or pinkfill? ???
What you suggested Big Al was the option that I had considered, although I suppose it depends on the mortar gaps being more or less horizontal. Would it be worth considering making some grooves for wedges with a small cutting wheel if the stone is random??
Is a glue type option better than plas plug type fixings??
(is gripfill or pinkfill a type of glue?)
Again thanks for your suggestions
Mr Spanton ;)

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by HandyMac on Jul 13^th, 2004, 9:03pm

wrote on Jul 13^th, 2004, 8:43pm:

What is gripfill or pinkfill? ???

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=10261&ts=48706

And sorry, it's called Pinkgrip (not Pinkfill):

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/searchresults.jsp;jsessionid=IVYPAZCK2XVU5CJO2C3CJ0Q?_dyncharset=UTF-8&q=pinkgrip&n=&pn=1&pd=1&pi=1&cn=1&cd=1&x=10&y=10

Basically it's a glue - Pinkgrip is tackier and sets quicker than Gripfill (and is pink as the name suggests). Pinkgrip is the way to go if you want to put something up and have it stay in place.

It also has great gap filling properties. A good choice for something like a tumble dryer vent where you've drilled a hole thru a wall and have a few mm around the tube to fill - it both fills the hole and grips the tube in place.

It is applied with a sealant gun:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp;jsessionid=IVYPAZCK2XVU5CJO2C3CJ0Q?id=44185&slotName=null&homeRef=&ts=48751&destination=../cat/pro.jsp%3Fid%3D44185%26slotName%3Dnull%26homeRef%3D

If you buy a tube of this stuff then remember to have a 6in nail handy - you stuff that in the end of the nozzle after you've used part of the tube and it keeps it fresh until the next use.

Andrew

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by Dewy on Jul 13^th, 2004, 9:15pm

Pinkfill is something completely different. lmao

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by big_all on Jul 13^th, 2004, 9:20pm

why dont you scrape out a large amount
of the mortar parr a bit of wood to fit in
about 2 inch wide sticking out slightly farther
than required in 3 or 4 places on each side
fill hole with cement push wood back in
when set cut off wood to fit then hopfully
when you tighten up screws they wont
pull the wood out of the wall

this hopfully would give you the horizontal �
securing required ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by jasonB on Jul 14^th, 2004, 7:48am

Whenvver I've fixed to stone I just used plugs and screws and got a good fixing, with it being rendered you may end up drilling into a mortar joint that could be soft or hollow buy you would run the same risk with a brick wall anyway. A normal masonary bit should have no problems with the soft sandstone.

Jason

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by woodsmith on Jul 14^th, 2004, 8:26am

The only problems I find with stone walls is that they can be incredibly uneven. In this case I use wooden wedges, fit them too long then mark them with a spirit level before cutting them square.

Otherwise like Jason I just screw and plug. Only other thing to watch for is that often the mortar is very crumbly and if I were to go too mad with the SDS the blocks would fall out so then it's back to the wedges.

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by pk on Jul 15^th, 2004, 5:16pm

If it is an existing internal opening in a wall, then it will almost certainly be random stone, however, if it is an old external wall that is now internal (because of an extension) then at least the old outer face will be cut stone. Check the verticals, cut stone tends to be vertical whereas random stone is more 'rustic'

One idea for fixing is using resin. Drill the reveal, if it is stone...great, but if you hit mortar, or it's all a bit soft, use resin ( plus a mesh sleeve if really soft) and insert the plastic section of a frame anchor. When the resin sets you can fix the lining using a big screw or the rest of the frame anchor.

Finally.....if it is random stone, and it is very uneven, try foam and then scribe the architrave

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by ricktommo on Jul 23^rd, 2004, 10:13pm

In my humble opinion, propellor shape timber wedges are from the days before power tools were widely used. I was brought up on them as a young apprentice, but I haven't bother putting an axe in my tool box for many a year.

How about fixing the frame with either brown plugs and screws or frame fasteners and timber packers? Fix into the stone, not the cement joints. Foam filling takes the bounce out of the frame and makes re rendering or mastic pointing easier, it stops the packers dislodging too.

Foam seems to be considered a bit of a bodge, but one often pulls out Victorian rolled up newspapers when replacing windows and door casings in old houses. Foam is better than todays paper anyday.

Title: Re: fixing to stone walls
Post by big_all on Jul 24^th, 2004, 1:03am

helllooo r t
couldnt agree with you more
i have never worked with sand stone and
knowing its crumbly was just trying to advise
in a direction allong the lines he was asking
i use brown plugs ect :D :D :D
never used a flying boat to secure a door frame
but give em the choice and let em choose
i personaly couldnt be arsed [to much work]
but the options there ::) ::) ;D ;D