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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Building Questions >> removing loadbearing (?) wall https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1090497797 Message started by John Davies on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 1:03pm

Title: removing loadbearing (?) wall
Post by John Davies on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 1:03pm

We are currently doing up a 30's three bedroom semi, and wish to remove the brick wall between the kitchen 4 ' wide (honest! - by gum, it is narrow!) - and the dining room, which is 9 ' wide. will create a room some 13' long.

The question is, we are not sure to what extent the wall is loadbearing. Whilst the wall extends up to the bedroom joists (which run across both rooms) these are very solid - 6" by 2 3/4" every 15 " or so.

The one bathroom wall - single brick, about 7' by 7' - rests on these at the other end of the room to no apparent ill effect.

My own thoughts are to put in an 8" by 4" balk of timber to help support the bedroom floor, just in case, but to use wood supports resting on stone let into the wall rather than piers. I don't really like RSJ's - unsightly things - I would rather use timber.

Anybody else any thoughts? Got any experience of this? Or know how to work out the maths? I don't particularly want to call in the experts - it is cheaper to support the floor on a just-in-case basis!

Thanks

John

Title: Re: removing loadbearing (?) wall
Post by HandyMac on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 4:02pm

wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 1:03pm:

I don't particularly want to call in the experts - it is cheaper to support the floor on a just-in-case basis!

Well don't bother worrying about it then - just knock the wall down, and if the house collapses then you'll have your answer. Your insurance company will shrug their shoulders and say tough luck, 'cos it won't be an insured risk.

I'm sorry, but there are some jobs where you must call upon expert help. This isn't a DIY job, and no-one around these parts or elsewhere is going to give you advice on removing a potential load bearing wall.

Andrew

Title: Re: removing loadbearing (?) wall
Post by woodsmith on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 4:22pm

John, following on from Andrews gentle prod towards getting professional advice. He is absolutely right, if you have any doubt get a stuctural engineer in. I used one last year and he had a quick look at the job, gave me some good advice and charged �30.

Not a lot compared with potential structural damage to your property.

I take it that you have obtained (are obtaining) building permission for these alterations; the Building Control Officer is often a good source of information and advice.

Title: Re: removing loadbearing (?) wall
Post by John Davies on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 4:53pm

The whole point is that those who have seen the wall differ as to whether it is loadbearing at all - sorry, I didn't make this clear before.

I was therefore trying to play on the safe side in suggesting inserting a support, rather than wishing to live dangerously!

However, it looks as if the only answer is to �try a stuctural engineer, and if he thinks it is loadbearing then get him to work out the RSJ/support needed �and then go through building control. �

Thanks to all

John D

Title: Re: removing loadbearing (?) wall
Post by HandyMac on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 5:01pm

Sorry if I was a bit brash. Hmm, "gentle prod", I must be losing my charisma! ;)

Andrew

Title: Re: removing loadbearing (?) wall
Post by John Davies on Sep 22^nd, 2004, 5:46pm

Right, I'm getting somewhere. I am informed by a surveyor that it is indeed loadbearing. Currently he is doing the calcs.

Both he and the Planning Control Officer reckon from what they have seen of the rest of my work it is within my capacity to do the job myself, so that is a relief. The Palnning Control Officer has also laid down how exactly she wants it done. (Yes, 'she!!')

Question is, once he has done the calcs. is it possible to use one of the new, unused beams that crop up on ebay from time to time if it meets specifications, or is there a requirement laid down somewhere to use a new beam?

All contributions gratefully received!

John

Title: Re: removing loadbearing (?) wall
Post by JerryD on Sep 29^th, 2004, 11:37pm

Wait until you get the calcs, the designed beam may not be a large section so would not cost too much new and delivered.

We use steel beams all the time and the cost always surprises me (how cheap they are).

The important thing to watch is the last figure given in the calcs, say the design is for a beam 152 x 152 x 37, then obviously this is a 152 x 152 in size but weighs 37 kilos per metre. This gives the thickness of the steel as 152 x 152 can be obtained as 23kg or 30kg or 37kg. Obviously the 37kg is the strongest of these and if this is specified you must not use either of the two lighter ones.

There are dozens of steel sections available in RSJ, UC and UB. Your calcs man will specify which to get.

If you are lucky (and the load is light) you may only need a box lintel.

Padstones may be needed also, make sure you check this point.

Title: Re: removing loadbearing (?) wall
Post by John Davies on Oct 6^th, 2004, 5:22pm

Thanks for this. I will look at the spec. before I panic..................

John

Title: Re: removing loadbearing (?) wall
Post by mr_spanton on Oct 6^th, 2004, 9:53pm

Mac and Woodsmith are definately absolutely right about getting specialist professional advice on structural engineering. Recently a daft t**t in our locality decide to remove a load bearing wall in a listed grade 2 dwelling ??? ::) without getting structural surveyors advice. Result - house collapses into a ruined shell. Oh dear. Then another daft t**t decides to have a go at underpinning - the whole building at once-yes!!! ??? ::) again result one ruin to enjoy; how twee ::)