Post by supersparky on Sep 29th, 2004, 8:48pm
all this talk of part P
hes probrably gone off to have a
ay chubb lol
ss
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DIY Forum >> Electrical Questions >> DIY Electrical Work & Part P https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1096743169 Message started by ChubbyPhaseWire on Sep 29th, 2004, 8:18pm |
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Title: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by ChubbyPhaseWire on Sep 29th, 2004, 8:18pm The government announced on 15 July last year that, as soon as competent person self-certification schemes were in place, it would include requirements on electrical safety in dwellings as part p of the building regulations. Part P of the building regulations on electrical safety was subsequently published on 22 July 2004, giving statutory support to the IEE Wiring Regulations BS 7671 and bringing domestic electrical installations in England and Wales under building regulations control. This means that, from 1st January 2005, anyone carrying out domestic electrical installation work must comply with Part P. where work is notifiable it must be certificated by a member of a competent person self certification scheme or the work must be notified to the local authority, which will then be responsible for inspecting and testing it for electrical safety. In addition, the members of competent person self-certification schemes must have an appreciation of how the building regulations in general affect the electrical installation and be sufficiently competent to confirm that their work complies with all applicable requirements of the building regulations. Such requirements include: Part A – Structure Part B – Fire Safety Part C – Site preparation and resistance to moisture Part E – Resistance to the passage of sound Part F – Ventilation Part L – Conservation of Fuel and Power Part M – Access to and use of buildings These approved documents may be downloaded free of charge from the website of the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (OPDM) at http://www.odpm.gov.uk/ Failure to comply with the building regulations is a criminal offence and local authorities have the power to require the removal or alteration of work that does not comply with the requirements. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scope Part P Applies to electrical installations or parts of installations in buildings or parts of buildings comprising: Dwelling houses and flats Dwellings and business premises that have a common supply - for example shops and public houses with a flat above Common access areas in blocks of flats such as corridors and staircases Shared Amenities of blocks of flats such as laundries and gymnasiums Part P applies also to parts of the above electrical installations: In or on land associated with the buildings - for example Part P applies to fixed lighting and pond pumps in gardens; in outbuildings such as sheds, detached garages and greenhouses. How To Comply The Requirements of Part P will be met by adherence to Chapter 13, 'Fundamental Principles', in BS 7671:2001. These fundamental principles can be achieved by following: The requirements of BS 7671:2001, and The Guidance given in installation manuals which are consistent with BS 7671:2001, such as the IEE On Site Guide and IEE Guidance Notes 1 to 7. What about NOTIFICATION TO BUILDING CONTROL ;) ENFORCEMENT ;) PUBLIC AWARENESS ;) DIY WORK ;) |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by L.Spark on Sep 29th, 2004, 8:46pm Well come on then chubby, I can't wait all day! ;D pm me when its done [glb]thx[/glb] |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by supersparky on Sep 29th, 2004, 8:48pm all this talk of part P hes probrably gone off to have a ay chubb lol ss |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by L.Spark on Sep 29th, 2004, 8:52pm hahaha yeh, sort ya self out chubby |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by HandyMac on Sep 30th, 2004, 6:22pm wrote on Sep 29th, 2004, 8:18pm:
So let's see..... I'm no longer allowed to carry out minor electrical work such as changing a light fitting, 'cos I can't issue a compliance certificate after the event. No problem, I'll just get on with other work which I'm presumed competent to do. Now on one of my other jobs I come across a dangerous electrical socket or other installation issue, and I fix it. Mr Helpful from the local council comes along, prosecutes me, and requires the householder to put the domestic installation back into a dangerous condition 'cos I'm not qualified to do the job I'm being prosecuted for. It's madness Jim, but now as we know it. The sooner the arseholes in the current government are turfed out the better for all of us. Andrew |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by fubar on Sep 30th, 2004, 7:08pm wrote on Sep 30th, 2004, 6:22pm:
Get hold of a copy of Approved Document P - it is free if you get it from the ODPM website! You are allowed to replace accessories (eg socket-outlets, light switches, ceiling roses and pre-assembled, CE-marked luminairres) provided they are: a) not in a Kitchen b) not in a Special Location* AND a) you have the appropriate test equipment b) you are competent in the use of said test equipment c) you adhere to BS7671 and in the relevant parts of the building regulations Additionally, you must issue a Minor Electrical Works certificate to the person ordering the work, on completion. You can find blank forms on the IEE website and the IEE On-Site Guide (OSG) describes how to fill them in. The IEE (and others) run courses on filling in the forms, too, if you want tutor-led instruction. * as defined in Approved Document P [edited for clarity] |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by HandyMac on Sep 30th, 2004, 7:27pm wrote on Sep 30th, 2004, 7:08pm:
That's where it falls down flat for me. The amount of electrical work I take on each year (change of light fitting, add loft light and similar) represents less than £500 of turnover for me. And being forced to join NICEIC or one of the other scam outfits would cost me far more than the amount of money I bring in - from which I have to buy consummables such as tape, fuses, sleeving etc which don't get billed as line items to the customer. So there's absolutely no point my trying to comply with these new regulations. I am forced to throw away this minor income option. Gordon Brown won't get any tax from it, the householder may well jury-rig their own solution, and in the end everyone loses out because some tosser in government thought of a great way to dumb down small business owners. Will it improve safety, which is the quoted reason why this legislation was brought in? I doubt it. The cowboys will still be out there - with even greater opportunity presented to them as people like me are driven out of the business. Andrew |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by fubar on Sep 30th, 2004, 7:42pm wrote on Sep 30th, 2004, 7:27pm:
That is what I am saying - as long as you limit yourself to non-notifiable work (the two examples you give above and the guidance I gave in my previous post all count as non-notifiable work), then you do not need to join a self-certification scheme. You do need to issue a certificate but you don't need to join a scheme to do that, either. If you have a printer, you can just print off the blank forms and then fill them in. Seriously, get hold of Approved Document P and have a read through it. It is fairly well written. Of course, if you want to drop electrical work and are planning on using Part P as an excuse... :) |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by HandyMac on Sep 30th, 2004, 8:20pm Clearly I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. Of course, I'm sure that it wasn't badly explained either ;) Andrew |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by fubar on Sep 30th, 2004, 10:57pm wrote on Sep 30th, 2004, 8:20pm:
I've editied my earlier post in an attempt to make it clearer, in case someone comes back across this thread via the search engine. Please PM me if you have any further suggestions. It desn't help that the scheme operators seem to be waging a campaign of mis-information :( I guess they are telling everyone what they wanted Part P to say, not what it does say! |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by HandyMac on Sep 30th, 2004, 11:10pm I was joking earlier so please don't take offence ;) Andrew |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by L.Spark on Sep 30th, 2004, 11:30pm Guys its neither of you, as far as im concerned when it comes to the subject of part p (which is not my favourite) its tricky, because they have changed the rules all the way along so its hard to keep up, I originaly thought you could replace broken/faulty items if they were like for like with no problems, but it seems now that a minor works certificate is in order, and whilst no its not notifiable work, its not much good for handymac and others in his position without having test kit and evertything else that 'they' require. |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by fubar on Sep 30th, 2004, 11:44pm wrote on Sep 30th, 2004, 11:10pm:
I know :) L.Spark makes a good point - while IEE Guidance Note 3* walks you through how to test an installation or a part of it, the document does assume some prior knowledge and if you don't already have the test equipment, this may be the barrier to entry for you and your peers. * the On-Site Guide contains an abridged version of this document |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by The_Trician on Oct 1st, 2004, 11:00pm I wouldn't worry too much about Part P. If we really believe the govt stats I reckon there'll be even more house fires than there are now. Part P'll have a directly opposite effect on safety to that which is intended, as more and more people rebel against the extra costs of having work done thru' the (new) proper channels and just carry on regardless. Would any of you, in all seriousness, notify your LABC, pay their fees, and then pay a pro to do the job. Nah, you'd whizz off to the nearest DIY shed, pick up your new (legally purchased ) CU and mcbs, come to a forum like this for advice, and chuck it in yourself over the w/end. Part P? Don't make me laugh. TT |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by Beanzy on Oct 2nd, 2004, 6:50pm wrote on Oct 1st, 2004, 11:00pm:
but don't forget this won't ever be admitted as a failure of PartP. Oh no it'll be evidence of just how bad the situation really is and how there'll have to be an outright ban on plugging in equipment to a socket unless there's a qualified spark present to sign it off in triplicate... just watch these control freaks twist their own errors to give them more leverage on the thing. You won't see them owning up when John Bulls' bulldog of enterprise dies because these eejits have stuck his collar on too tight. |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by chappers on Oct 3rd, 2004, 10:45pm would have to agree its not going to be enforcable after all I doubt any of the general public are going to know anything about it and when they do how they going to feel when their electrically competent builder says oh that'll be a tenner to change that light fitting then another £50 for me to get the sparks in with his test equipment to write you out a minor works certificate.They'll just say "no thanks mate think I'll give it a go myself". how much extra do the sparks on here think all the extra testing and form filling is going to add to a job? |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by JerryD on Oct 3rd, 2004, 10:58pm Another problem is that the equipment is only as good as the day it was tested. As soon as the sparks has issued the certificates and gone, the householder (or anyone) could do anything to the wiring, adding bits, breaking into ring mains, fitting new x zillawatt showers etc etc. What happens then if there's a fire or injury?? |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by supersparky on Oct 3rd, 2004, 11:03pm thing is mate; there will be the group that go to the niceic registration and become legal, with this a price will have to be passed on to the coustemer. then you will have band two, made of people who have their city and guilds, and dont see why there should be their extra cost, so will keep going as they are. personly, i stand between the two i have C+Gs ill keep going as i am ive got to go and do the test and inspection course and then get registered, i will do it eventualy, if somone comes along and actuly somhow enforces it then i have a mate who is getting registered and ill just stick say £150 on top of my bill for the test to be done. its not enforcable however so bugger em, they know where they can shove it i also doubt that the landlord who i do the maintenance for will care either ss |
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Title: Re: DIY Electrical Work & Part P Post by L.Spark on Oct 4th, 2004, 12:10am lol sparks, just as is already happening, several people I know (sparks) get there work checked by another spark whos NICEIC reg, and he fills in a nice little red certif for them and job done :) |
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