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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Building Questions >> Loft hatch https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1099952739 Message started by supersparky on Nov 8^th, 2004, 10:25pm

Title: Loft hatch
Post by supersparky on Nov 8^th, 2004, 10:25pm

i know that if there is perminant stairs to the loft space it becomes a habitable room and alllll kinda plans are needed.....

what about the fold down stairs? about a meter wide and are full size (ie the 'hatch' becom,es summat like 1meter* 3 meters) and they fold down....think its an american thing?
well, provided you plyed/plasterboarded the back would this be acceptable? you could then accedently leave it down �8)
if somone comes to inspect...just shove em back up
this kinda idea...but bigger....

ss

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by Robbo on Nov 8^th, 2004, 10:58pm

Styra folding attic stairs ;) You have got the picture!!!!!!

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by supersparky on Nov 8^th, 2004, 11:33pm

and your allowed em without planning permission?

expensive?

cheers

ss

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by JerryD on Nov 9^th, 2004, 12:48am

SS, it seems you're trying to build a loft conversion without anyone knowing about it!! ;D (except all us lot on the forum ::))

If you're going the "slam it shut when the inspector arrives" route, then it doesn't matter what you do, it's ALL illegal! :o

All will be ok until there is a problem. Heaven forbid - a fire. That's what most of the loft conversion regs are about, surviving and escaping a fire. If you're just creating better storage facilities in the loft then that's fine but if you're expecting someone to live up there then the potential risks outweigh the cost savings of doing it right.

Just my 2 cents worth ;D ;)

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by HandyMac on Nov 9^th, 2004, 7:31am

JerryD is exactly right on this.

Even if the plan is to put your work PC up there so that you've got somewhere quiet (and very cold in the winter, very hot in the summer!) to do your accounts, that counts as habitable space.

Non-habitable is like when you board over and throw the odds and sods up there to get them out of the way.

Your home insurance policy won't want to know if you try to make a claim on an illegally converted loft space.

The first question I ask when I'm asked to board a loft is "what are you going to use the loft space for?".

Andrew

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by supersparky on Nov 9^th, 2004, 12:49pm

not at all
i want to board it out fully
inc ceilings
the only reason i asked about it was so that you dont have to run up the ladder everytime you want to go up there which is alot.
cost of the loft conversion isnt the main factor either so dont be thinking im trying to find a cheep way round.
its the disruption it would cause including major construction downstairs.
hence i went off the idea of conversion and want a storage area. what i want to know is what makes it a habitable space? ive always thaught it was acsess such as fixed stairs...

dont assume anything please

ss

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by JerryD on Nov 9^th, 2004, 11:15pm

I've always understood a 'habitable room' is one where you live or sleep.

This then excludes small kitchens, utility rooms, storage areas, garages, lofts, bathrooms, hallways and landings.

If your loft 'conversion' is genuinely just for storage then my opinion is that the means of access to it is irrelevant. To qualify as being 'just for storage' it is important that that's all it is used for. It may be a grey area if a made-up bed or pc terminal desk is up there.

I've worked in houses where they have had a staircase up to the loft, usually a narrow, winding staircase. However in all cases there has been a door at the bottom of the staircase.

But your idea of the loft ladder SS, is fine. That's what everyone else has (albeit not such a posh one 8) )

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by HandyJon on Nov 10^th, 2004, 2:02pm

I agree with you JerryD. A loft is only habitable if it's a bedroom/bedsite type room or a living room. A loft used as an office or playroom isn't a habitable room. As far as I can gather it's to do with the amount/type of use it's going to get.

A loft can have a proper flight of stairs and still not need to be habitable to be within regulations.

To be habitable, it will need an independent means of escape. This means an upstairs window is a tilt/turn window or a fully opening window (min size 450mmx450mm I think) or access to an external door from the stairs which doesn't go through an habitable room, and there are fire doors on this escape route.

So you can put up a permanent set of stairs to your loft. See www.loftshop.co.uk for some good examples. One they do is called an alternator and it's half the going as a normal set of stairs since it's a bit like a ladder - each tread uses only half the width. Another can be stored vertically against a wall and rolled into position when required. Prices are around �700-�900.

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by supersparky on Nov 10^th, 2004, 2:47pm

cheers guys...now thats some fuel for thaught... :-*

ss

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by Charlie_Farley on Nov 27^th, 2004, 9:54pm

You're scaring the crap out of him with your fire restrictions and regs and stuff. You do not need any regulations to convert your loft space. None! nil! zilch! You have a piece of rope to access it if you like - Screw the ladder/steps.

Go ahead ss and convert it as you wish but dont alter the structure of the space by cutting out supports. Board it out and plasterboard it if you want. Put your desk up there and stairs as well if you want. The down side is that you will not be able to sell it with a 'loft conversion' if the application hasn't been approved - If I were buying it and the work was good and sound I would not care two hoots if it had a sound application or not.

Too many people bandy the regs about as if they were a stick by which to beat you with but they aint. If you convert then please consider the fire issues and you may need to look at intumescent applications as well so that if you wanted to at a later date, then you can apply for retrospective application and do a minimum of work.

Good luck ol' mate.

Charlie

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by JerryD on Nov 27^th, 2004, 10:30pm

Remind me never to buy anything you've built then Charlie!

So apply for retrospective permission eh?

So those old ceiling joists you've boarded over will be approved for floor joists eh?

So the sound insulation will be up to standard eh?

So the insulation behind that plasterboard will comply eh?

etc etc etc

In other words, rip it all out and start again.............

If you're going to do any conversion, do it properly first time, in the long run it's cheaper, safer, no issues to come back and bite you, no insurance issues.

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by Charlie_Farley on Nov 27^th, 2004, 10:49pm

I am sorry that your head appears to be up your anus Jerry but point 1 - You could ill afford anything I have built. It appears that your reading skills are equally lacking and your gob is controlled remotely by another moron as equally unbalanced as you are as I just know you are not responsible enough to claim this posting as your own.

Read the posting and know my relationship with ss and you will understand that, if you could read you may have seen the line "...were buying it and the work was good and sound ". ss is a particularly clever person who would understand that this includes joist enhancement, insulation issues, fire issues and the like. I dont need to expalin my points bit by bit as it would appear I have to with you.

How do you know he wants to retain the space long term? He may want is as storage or temporary workspace.

Oh wisened one, tell me one single insurance issue that would arise in this situation that would prove detrimental to ss' property. Take your time ......

If he decides to retain the space then yes he can apply for retrospective permission.

Am I going too fast for you?

Just to remind you Jerry "never buy anything I've built"

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by supersparky on Nov 27^th, 2004, 11:29pm

cheers again chapps
any advice is good advice

as a matter of fact its probrably going to go through planning dept and BCO route because in forsight it may be worth having as a seling point

i will of course keep everyone updated 8)

cheers chapps

ss

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by Robbo on Nov 28^th, 2004, 12:35am

wrote on Nov 27^th, 2004, 9:54pm:

You're scaring the crap out of him with your fire restrictions and regs and stuff. �You do not need any regulations to convert your loft space. �None! nil! zilch! You have a piece of rope to access it if you like - Screw the ladder/steps.

Go ahead ss and convert it as you wish but dont alter the structure of the space by cutting out supports. �Board it out and plasterboard it if you want. �Put your desk up there and stairs as well if you
want. �The down side is that you will not be able to sell it with a 'loft conversion' if the application hasn't been approved - If I were buying it and the work was good and sound I would not care two hoots if it had a sound application or not. �

Too many people bandy the regs about as if they were a stick by which to beat you with but they aint. �If you convert then please consider the fire issues and you may need to look at intumescent applications as well so that if you wanted to at a later date, then you can apply for retrospective application and do a minimum of work.

Good luck ol' mate.

Charlie

I am (unusually) in agreement with c.f. here. A habbitable room is a habittable room....... whereas a conversion for any other purpose like a games or hobby room requires no planning whatsoever, this is why this whole subject has evolved to this point and s.s. has been made fully aware of all implications and requirements through many postings to and fro on this very subject on another thread so he would be fully aware of the requirements for whichever direction he decides to take.
My opinion was that there would require a great deal of structural work judging from his photos submitted that to my mind would be financially unviable to undertake a complete habittable compliant conversion but the expance could be put to good use wiyh a little thought and planning.

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by JerryD on Nov 28^th, 2004, 5:48am

wrote on Nov 27^th, 2004, 10:49pm:

I am sorry that your head appears to be up your anus Jerry but point 1 - You could ill afford anything I have built. �It appears that your reading skills are equally lacking and your gob is controlled remotely by another moron as equally unbalanced as you are as I just know you are not responsible enough to claim this posting as your own.

Read the posting and know my relationship with ss and you will understand that, if you could read you may have seen the line "...were buying it and the work was good and sound ". ss is a particularly clever person who would understand that this includes joist enhancement, insulation issues, fire issues and the like. �I dont need to expalin my points bit by bit as it would appear I have to with you.

How do you know he wants to retain the space long term? He may want is as storage or temporary workspace.

Oh wisened one, tell me one single insurance issue that would arise in this situation that would prove detrimental to ss' property. �Take your time ......

If he decides to retain the space then yes he can apply for retrospective permission. �

Am I going too fast for you?

Just to remind you Jerry "never buy anything I've built"

Bwahahahaha!!! �;D ;D ;D �You're right pal, I couldn't afford anything you've built, all that remedial work would cost thousands! �;D ;D ;D

Your response to my post was aggressive to the extreme, is this the type of person you are? Not sure we're going to get on!

Lighten up, have a cuppa and stop being a bully, behavior like that on a forum only shows you up, not me.

Title: Re: Loft hatch
Post by Charlie_Farley on Nov 28^th, 2004, 9:26am

Quote ".....you are? Not sure we're going to get on!"

You're damn right there at least. If I dont have to I get along then I wont.

>:(