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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Electrical Questions >> DIY Electricians face large fines https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1104390069 Message started by L.Spark on Dec 30^th, 2004, 7:01am

Title: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Dec 30^th, 2004, 7:01am

from BBC Ceefax pages 108 this morning reads

"DIY electricans face big fines from saturday but many are unware of the new legislation, a survey suggests.

The new regulations mean work more complicated than replacing a plug socket or changing a light switch can require official approval.

The government opted for legislation because of a rising number of deaths due to amateur electrical work.

But a survey by British Gas found 61% of respondents did not know about the new regulations"

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by plugwash on Dec 30^th, 2004, 2:31pm

as low as 61%?!

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Dec 30^th, 2004, 5:13pm

wrote on Dec 30^th, 2004, 2:31pm:

as low as 61%?!

Indeed... ::)

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by Logic_Plus on Dec 30^th, 2004, 5:19pm

It was nice of the Gas Board to do the survey ::)

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Dec 30^th, 2004, 5:26pm

lol, who cares, you only need to talk to a few people to get the idea of what's known and what's not ::)

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by supersparky on Dec 30^th, 2004, 5:29pm

lol one of my ol custemers i do loadsa little bits for said about it the other day

are you going to get registered then?

yeh i will eventuly, but im not jumping through hoops and standing to attention for them says i

well, even if you dident id still use you, being a member of this thing dosnt show if your good at what you do or not does it? word of mouth is what id rely on

and i agree

i think it will flop

ss

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Dec 30^th, 2004, 9:12pm

Quote:

i think it will flop

And it's attitude's like his that will help it along!...fall that is ;) ;D

errr...keep up the good work my sparky's anti PP client ;D

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by Beanzy on Dec 30^th, 2004, 9:26pm

wrote on Dec 30^th, 2004, 7:01am:

The government opted for legislation because of a rising number of deaths due to amateur electrical work.

If DIY electrical work was as Pi55 poor as Ceefax journalism, then we'd have had a rising number of deathe due to.... etc etc. Instead the rate has fallen but the rate of decrease had slowed, despite the increase in electrical complexity of installations and the increase in volume of appliances connected.

Maybe we need to regulate dangerous journalism. :P

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Dec 30^th, 2004, 9:47pm

Yeah beanzy, still it's what happens after January that count's, I'll need to get comftable in my new job, and I'll obviously expect all DIY work to stop, and everything to be 110% safer becasue the government says so.

And these things can be switched on and off like a switch(good pun) can't they.

Like my m8's boss who's apparantly an electrician but he doesnt have any test kit & he doesnt follow any rules at all but his own, and then says we will work to the regs now, like that can just be switched on and off, the guy don't even know the reg's, he's such a twit he won't ever go as far as using the earth - do not remvoe that comes with clamps, and questions my m8 when he places one near the earth block "nah no need for that"

::)

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by The_Trician on Dec 30^th, 2004, 9:51pm

How can you obey a law you don't know about?

As far as Part P goes - I know nothing, have heard nothing, have forgotten nearly everything so..............

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

HaPEE New Year and ferk em all!

TT

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Dec 31^st, 2004, 12:52am

LOL TT, your a bl00dy part p post sniffer ;D

don't miss a trick, or... ;D

anyway we can all pretend we don't know about it, the fact is tho there are some people who REALLY DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT, and this is a bit like erm?

It's true you can't comply to something you don't know about, it's like them outlawing condoms but you have already had sex and used one and didn't know, what you going to do about it now.

No doubt they will then make out it's our/your duty to find out about the rules before you work, go to the pub, buy your shopping, go for a p!ss etc.

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by dingbat on Dec 31^st, 2004, 1:04pm

wrote on Dec 31^st, 2004, 12:52am:

It's true you can't comply to something you don't know about...
No doubt they will then make out it's our/your duty to find out about the rules before you work...

Er, it is, actually. Apart from the duty of care you have in regard to your customers, they can always get you on the "ignorance of the law is no excuse" catch-all.

But how on earth are you supposed to keep up with all the changes in legislation that might affect you? We forum-bashers are surely in the minority amongst tradesmen - how does the 'average' jobbing builder/spark/kitchen-fitter keep up to date?

And what will the average householder call the new requirements? It won't be Part P for sure, because that means nothing to anybody outside the debate. I'm changing my advertising to read, "Registered to certify all work in accordance with the latest building regulations", but I have no idea whether this will mean any more to Joe Public than "Qualified".

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Dec 31^st, 2004, 1:43pm

lol dingbat 8)

the clock is ticking, 10 Hours, 17 Minutes, 21 Seconds.

And I couldn't care less ;)

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by HandyJon on Dec 31^st, 2004, 7:54pm

wrote on Dec 31^st, 2004, 1:43pm:

And I couldn't care less ;)

I'm trying not to be, but I am. In the process of buying a house to develop and due to unforseen delays by the vendors we aren't completing till Jan instead of Dec 17th. So I could have started the wiring before Part P and got away with it. Now I've got to start at the end of Jan as we're caught by Part P. Bit more to add to the tight budget. Might still get away with it since we've managed to sneek a look under the floor boards and the wiring is modern, but not the fusebox - see http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/HandyJon/DSC01572.jpg and http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/HandyJon/DSC01571.jpg

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by plugwash on Dec 31^st, 2004, 7:59pm

wrote on Dec 31^st, 2004, 1:04pm:

i have said this before and i will say it again
1:make everyone a criminal
2:remove the vote from convicted criminals (did they do this already?)
3:convict those who support your political opposition
4:finish off your police state.

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by shandypants on Jan 2^nd, 2005, 12:58am

Does this mean an unqualified leccy, but experienced DIYer like me, cant add the 10 spurs I had planned for my kitchen? :-/

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Jan 2^nd, 2005, 1:14am

You can if you get the work inspected and it meets regulations, if it doesnt they can have you take it out and re-do it.

You would need to notify your local authority building controll (LABC) about the proposed work and ask them what they have in place to deal with this.

Don't go easy on them ;)

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by ban-all-sheds on Jan 4^th, 2005, 11:34pm

wrote on Dec 31^st, 2004, 7:59pm:

Somewhere in there you need the step of introducing compulsory ID cards so that you have the foundations of a police state ready.

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by ban-all-sheds on Jan 4^th, 2005, 11:36pm

wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2005, 1:14am:

You can if you get the work inspected and it meets regulations, if it doesnt they can have you take it out and re-do it.

No they can't. They can only go after you for stuff which is unsafe.

If you think that they can do you for stuff which doesn't meet regulations, I'd be interested to know which regulations, and where it says this.

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Jan 4^th, 2005, 11:45pm

wrote on Jan 4^th, 2005, 11:36pm:

I was under the impression that they worked from part p plans and part p work was only seen fit if it complied with regulations ::)

What about you?..

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by ban-all-sheds on Jan 5^th, 2005, 12:34am

This is the actual law:

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2004/20043210.htm

It requires the following:

P1 Reasonable provision shall be made in the design, installation, inspection and testing of electrical installations in order to protect persons from fire or injury.

P2 Sufficient information shall be provided so that persons wishing to operate, maintain or alter an electrical installation can do so with reasonable safety.

And that's it.

In the Part P document we all know and love it cites BS7671 as a way in which compliance with the Building Regs can be achieved, but it is not mandatory.

See Paul1966's post of Monday January 03, 2005 5:24 PM in http://www.iee.org/Forums/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=3863 for a very good explanation of the situation.

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Jan 5^th, 2005, 12:47am

Crikey, sounds like you might be right ;D

If I had time to read all the new regulations after reading all the exsisting one's whilst doing a million other things I might have known lol

If this is the case then anyone can do the work so long as it's deemed safe, the question is what deems it safe ???

lol, btw nonsparky sounds like abit like you ;)

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by ban-all-sheds on Jan 5^th, 2005, 9:35am

wrote on Jan 5^th, 2005, 12:47am:

If this is the case then anyone can do the work so long as it's deemed safe, the question is what deems it safe ???

Jolly good Q. I guess it will depend on how much of an arrogant, disgruntled jobsworth the person doing the LABC inspection is.

It also means that we are right back to the situation where a "Competent Person" can do stuff that isn't according to the regs and say "Well I think it's safe", especially as now, it seems, they could issue a certificate where they sign to say that "to the best of my knowledge and belief complies with The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004".

Quote:

lol, btw nonsparky sounds like abit like you ;)

Now there's a thing. He's got the same signature too..

Title: Re: DIY Electricians face large fines
Post by L.Spark on Jan 5^th, 2005, 11:24am

Well I'm all open ears, I just don't have the time to find out all these things that you have, the IEE forums are a good source of information, I had no idea that it all was all up in the air like it is ::)

Quote:

Now there's a thing. He's got the same signature too..

Yea but he didnt before and I still guessed ;) ;D