Post by L.Spark on Feb 7th, 2005, 12:20am
Bonding Sketch
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DIY Forum >> Electrical Questions >> Bathroom bonding https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1107728996 Message started by spongebob on Feb 6th, 2005, 10:29pm |
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Title: Bathroom bonding Post by spongebob on Feb 6th, 2005, 10:29pm What is the situation with supplementary bonding in a bathroom when it's been re-fit using plastic pipe. Also there is a storage heater that was bonded to the copper pipework. Can this be bonded using the earth terminal of the cable connection box that feeds it? |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by StirlingScott on Feb 6th, 2005, 10:37pm if plastic pipes in bathroom, u need to supplementary bond all other items and circuits in teh bathroom together - with 4mm earth wire - 2.5 if you can mechanically protect it, but usually 4mm - so bond lighting circuit cpc to shower circuitcpc to any other circuits cpc's. etc. im not sure what you mean regarding storage heater - are you saying you have a storage heater in the bathroom and it has a cable outlet with switch?? |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by L.Spark on Feb 6th, 2005, 11:08pm nice one Stirling, perhaps a little confusing, basicaly he needs to bond all the metalic parts and leave the plastic parts. also 2.5mm not permitted, he won't be able to protect it so not worth the while + against regs |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by spongebob on Feb 6th, 2005, 11:34pm O.k. not sure I understood it all, but here goes. Storage heater. In addition to it's supply cable which leaves a surface mounted plastic box with a blank face plate attached there was an earth bond to copper pipe. Should this earth bond be extended to a point where it can be connected to a copper pipe or can the earth terminal in the cable connection box be used. I take it that the taps have to be bonded as they are metal and exposed. Where do you get an earth clamp to attach to the tap tails? I've never seen one. What about the shower enclosure? Lights are existing LV downlighters. No CPC. The shower is a remote unit. Not in the bathroom but electric nonetheless, rail and hand set all plastic. take it that that is o.k. My heads spinning now. I admit to once believing that electricians were just wire joiners. I take it all back. |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by L.Spark on Feb 6th, 2005, 11:46pm Hey sponge, excuse me if I talk chit, bl00dy shattered :-/ wrote on Feb 6th, 2005, 11:34pm:
What we must do is bond all copper pipes together, and then bond to any earth terminals near by e.g. heater earth point. Start with you're first copper pipe, bond from this to any other copper pipes and then bond from the last copper pipe to the earth terminal of light switch or any other 'earth terminals' see pic for what cross bonding means Quote:
The taps don't get bonded directly, only pipework, no taps of metalic fittings, just the copper pipes To bond we use an earth clamp that goes around the copper pipe Quote:
You're downlighter's are class 2, which mean's double insulated, e.g. no earth connection needed, however there should be an earth nearby, perhaps in a terminal block, you should be bonding to this and any other earth terminals including the shower, do this at either the shower or the double pole pull cord for the shower Quote:
Very Naive Sponge ;) |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by L.Spark on Feb 7th, 2005, 12:20am Bonding Sketch |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by JohnD on Feb 7th, 2005, 12:45am My next job in the rewire! Do all bonds have to be visible, where possible? Or can they be beneath floorboards? Thanks JohnD |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by L.Spark on Feb 7th, 2005, 12:47am wrote on Feb 7th, 2005, 12:45am:
All electrical connection's, including earthing connection's need to be accessible ::) |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by JohnD on Feb 7th, 2005, 12:51am So what is 'accessible' in this context? Bonding to bath taps, for example, is as a rule only accessible if a panel is removed, and these days sinks too tend to be boxed in - do I only have to have the bonds visible where pipes are actually showing, and 'accessible' (i.e. by removing a panel or raising a floorboard) the rest of the time? And, on lighting circuits for example, junction boxes are normally under floorboards? So does this classify as accessible? Or did we really ought to fit backboxes with terminal blocks inside at skirting level instead, so that all joints are truly accessible, as they do on the continent? Thanks JohnD |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by HandyJon on Feb 7th, 2005, 11:51am Great thing about the regs - just says accessible without defining it. :) Accessible generally means accessible without destroying too much of the fabric of the house. So under floorboards and boxed in is usually ok. However, under floorboards which are then tiled over or laminated is not generally accessible but how are you to know that that is what will be done in the future. So it comes down to your interpretation of accessible and how easy you think it would be for an electrician to access in the future. |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by Beanzy on Feb 7th, 2005, 12:28pm Also can bond outside the zones, so if you can clearly identify all the metal pipes entering the bathroom from outside the room you can bond them just before they enter the room. This can be useful if the place has already been tarted up. Just make sure you hook up to the lighting circuit properly. As yours has only plastic pipe entering the room the real requirement would be to bond the lighting with the heater. There seems to be little that can introduce a different earth potential to the room, but double check things like heating pipes or old immersion pipes etc which may enter the room. Accessories within the bathroom can be bonded using the cpc of the accessory, as long as this is tested and proved. So the Heater to the FCU would be ok on the CPC from the flex (no clamp needed), but the FCU to the light would have to go on 4mm between them, not relying on out and back to /from the consumer unit. Even if you're using class2 lights at present, bond it now to save the grief when " 'Erin Doors " demands a different (class1) light next year. ::) |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by L.Spark on Feb 7th, 2005, 12:36pm Quote:
No wrote on Feb 7th, 2005, 11:51am:
No it's not tho, that's just it, under the bath is accesible, but under the floorboard's is not |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by dingbat on Feb 7th, 2005, 4:55pm My area engineer's definition of accessibility includes not only that it can be physically accessed but also that it is known to be there. His standard scenario is that you install a JB under a floor, the floor gets covered, you move house, there is a fault. How 'accessible' is it now that nobody knows it exists? |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by L.Spark on Feb 7th, 2005, 5:38pm Yea, we were talking about this last week on 2391, it was agreed that under floorboards was not accessible I've often run bonding and other cable's in boxed in sinks, baths, stack pipes etc, there always nailed, and I always fix them back with small screws, thing's like that should not be nailed Also I always keep connections to a minimum, and try to always keep them within socket's/lights, very bad practice to keep putting JB's everywhere imo |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by trowelhead on Feb 7th, 2005, 7:53pm This 'bonding' question arises on all and every forum i visit.Each reply tends to differ slightly or more and mostly results in a lenghty debate on 'opinions'. Could someone please explain if non-blah blah bonding ever resulted in: a)an electrocution b)a resulting fire c)a prosecution d)a death. The reason i ask this is i am obviously not an electrician but seeing obvious pros debate it i wonder if it is an absolute essential or just 'another' stupid reg' that must be obeyed! p.s dont all jump down my throat please,just wondering! p.p.s. awaiting all manner of quotes and obituries and bull from C.P.W! |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by L.Spark on Feb 7th, 2005, 8:56pm wrote on Feb 7th, 2005, 7:53pm:
The debate is usualy around how best to do it, or if it's required or not, I think you will find there is a general agreement that bonding needs to be done Quote:
A+C+D Yes, some one has been prosecuted for not bonding a bathroom which resulted in death, But I'd rather not go down that road, you choose if you wan't to bond or not, it's down to you at the end of the day Quote:
Well I must agree there are some regulations that are silly, but this one I would put in the absoulte essential part Quote:
That won't be happening, you're safe as bonded houses ;) |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by spongebob on Feb 7th, 2005, 11:08pm Right. I've come in late. Will peruse all replies and return with any queries. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by L.Spark on Feb 7th, 2005, 11:56pm wrote on Feb 7th, 2005, 11:25pm:
Tony, what you said doesnt apply because a bathroom is a special location & there asking about a bathroom |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by spongebob on Feb 7th, 2005, 11:57pm Right....here is what I propose to do. Any earth clamps that were removed (3) are going to be extended to where they can be re-attached to copper pipe. The whole supplementary/ main bonding can be addressed by a proper spark. This is giving me a headache! Thanks for all the comments though. All I need now is a few regulations to cover, painting, decorating, plumbing and joinery and I can put my feet up. |
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Title: Re: Bathroom bonding Post by L.Spark on Feb 8th, 2005, 12:07am lol, letting a spark do the bonding is probably for the best if you're not 100% sure anyway ;) |
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