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DIY Forum >> Building Questions >> Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1121999756 Message started by Deluks on Jul 22nd, 2005, 3:35am |
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Title: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by Deluks on Jul 22nd, 2005, 3:35am Hi chaps, seeing as loads of post offices closed down earlier this year, I'm wondering if any of you have had to refurb, refit any shops with the old counters still in. Reason being is that I'm after a thick piece of glass for the window in my soon-to-be-built garage music room. I've enquired at glass merchants etc but they charge a fortune for special studio and laminated glass so I've decided to go the beg/borrow and steal route seeing as my total budget is just a few hundred quid. I'm thinking post office counters/bank screens, shopfront glazing etc as it needs to be nice and thick. I've seen plenty of post office counters go on eBay cheap-as-chips, but none in the South London area unforch >:( Size is relatively unimportant, it's gonna be fitted into a stud wall, so I'll just build it in as it comes and board around it to the size required. So if anyone comes across something similar on their travels, let me know! Cheers Del |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by jasonB on Jul 22nd, 2005, 7:48am Problem is a lot of it is toughened or multi laminated so will be almost impossible to cut without the right tools. Having been involved with building a commercial studio you will be better off with double or triple or more glazing with a large air gap as the single layer of glass will stop almost no noise. I will always remember the 4" thick doors and window linings that were cut from 38mm MDF and 400mm wide ;D Jason |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by Deluks on Jul 22nd, 2005, 12:54pm Hi, yeh I realise that it's gonna be impossible to cut without using some water jet machine or something but size isn't important as I can build the wall around it and just put the plasterboard in place over it, leaving whatever size I need for the window. The window will be approx 9" from the existing outside window, from what I've gathered 2 panes and big airgap = good isolation. The thickness of the glass is crucial though. The inner stud wall will be about 2 inches thick, I'll need glass at least ¾ inch to be able to match it, but preferably more to compensate for the 6mm glass in the outer window. Del |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by CWatters on Jul 22nd, 2005, 7:29pm Why not use a regular sealed unit with toughened glass if necessary? |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by supersparky on Jul 22nd, 2005, 7:38pm or go to a window company and ask for 3 or 4 sets of double glazed units they have ripped out, matching in size, then your sorted, wont hear a thing through that much glass/ then space/ then glass 3 double glazed units is 6 glass panes so should have a decent effect ss |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by Deluks on Jul 22nd, 2005, 8:28pm There's a real issue with using multiple panes for sound insulating, I was gonna go the suggested route as I have an old double glazed window kicking about, then I got some info from here.... [url]http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=DESIGN&Number=101523&Searchpage=1&Main=98827&Words=+Deluks&topic=&Search=true#Post101523 [/url] Note the post from Bert Stoltenberg, that states "Using multiple airgaps is WRONG! TOTALLY WRONG!!!! DONT DO IT!!!! " ...and the first half of Rod Gervais post at the bottom "3. (Most Importantly) Typical double glazed insulated units are made with 1/8" glass - and the 2 panes even close together aren't going to give you enough mass to really acheive anything in the area of sound isolation. Your best bet would be to just lose these windows and use proper products." Rod builds studios for a living I think... when he says 'proper products' he's talking about spending £££ on heavy laminate glass. Soundproofing seems like common sense (even to me a few months ago), but the truth is that real world physics throw plenty of spanners in the works in ways that you wouldn't believe! ??? |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by supersparky on Jul 22nd, 2005, 8:48pm make your own? perspex-glass-perspex gap perspex glass perspex? i havent got a clue, one thing i can help with though, dont forget to put sound proofing hoods above any downlighters/light fittings you might fit :P ss |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by CWatters on Jul 23rd, 2005, 12:15pm When the M3 motorway was built next to our house my father fitted secondary double glazing with an air gap of about 1". Then the government introduced a compensation package that included free double glazing. They wouldn't cover the costs of what we had already fitted because they said the correct air gap for sound insulation was deemed to be about 6" (1" or less is best for thermal insulation). So we ended up with tripple glazing even though we were quite happy with th double glazing we had fitted. |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by billythekid on Jul 24th, 2005, 12:58am I know before i post that i am totally out of my depth with this but... My memory is whirring away here telling me that you need 100mm Vacuum between panes for sound insulation... hows that sound?? btk |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by CWatters on Jul 24th, 2005, 2:59pm A spot of googling and it looks like for best sound insulation you should: Use laminated glass (rather than regular or toughened). Use two panes of slightly different thickness. Use a "large" airgap (75-125mm seems to be suggested) Fit sound absorbent material to the walls inside the air gap. |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by Deluks on Jul 24th, 2005, 3:58pm wrote on Jul 24th, 2005, 2:59pm:
Yep, nail-on-the-head. That's the way to go, I'll be using a 200mm airgap, which will help me somewhat, and with rockwool filling the space between the walls. The only problem is acquiring the glass on a tight budget, that's where my idea of using salvaged security screens comes into play. Hence my appeal to all you building types. I've a chippy mate who has done post offices/banks in the past, and says that the old screens usually end up getting skipped :'( ...but he's got neither lined up, at least none in the next 6 months anyway. The vacuum idea has already been suggested elsewhere, and was poo-poo'd by acousticians, plus it would be technically challenging, even my dyson doesn't have that much suction! 8) |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by CWatters on Jul 24th, 2005, 4:14pm How to cut laminated glass... http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/34-1.htm |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by Deluks on Jul 24th, 2005, 4:47pm wrote on Jul 24th, 2005, 4:14pm:
"several people have been burned in recent years" :o Great! I believe this is the best method... http://science.howstuffworks.com/question553.htm those things will have your arm off! (Check the vid at the bottom) ...anyway, cutting is not the plan, I'll just build any excess 'into' the wall, this will also make it easer to seal around the edges of the window. |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by thescruff on Jul 24th, 2005, 5:55pm Why not use glass blocks cheap and effective. http://www.simplyglassblocks.co.uk/ |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by jasonB on Jul 24th, 2005, 6:43pm Normal laminated (two layer) glass is easy to cut, you just use a standard cutter from both sides, snap it then cut the film with a razor blade, problem comes with the multi layered stuff in banks etc as you can't score the inner layers. Used to do a lot of banking halls for Barclays around london but that was 20yrs ago, all the stuff we ripped out went straight into skips. Jason |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by Building_Control on Jul 31st, 2005, 7:50pm Get some unused sealed units from the local firm, and double em up. to be really effective the panes need to be at least 30% differnt in thickness to stop vibration noise from transmitting across the void. |
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Title: Re: Anyone doing up a former post office/bank? Post by supersparky on Jul 31st, 2005, 9:07pm coor been a while since you came to these parts! welcome back... ss |
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