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DIY Forum >> Building Questions >> Workload for a Novice https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1126096360 Message started by theswimmerswimming on Sep 7th, 2005, 1:32pm |
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Title: Workload for a Novice Post by theswimmerswimming on Sep 7th, 2005, 1:32pm Hi everyone. I am a novice DIYer. I am currently considering having a two storey extension built on my house and wondered how much if any of the work I could do to save my very small budget. For example could I dig and lay the foundations. I am at the very start of this so I know I would need planning permission, but want to know if there are cuts I can make so that I could afford to go ahead) any comments would be greatly appreciated Kind regards Adrian |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by JerryD on Sep 7th, 2005, 7:17pm My advice would be to leave the major works to a professional builder. If you're short of money then just get the shell built (i.e. totally finished externally, windows and glass in, sealed up) but don't have anything done internally. You can then diy at your leisure. btw foundations can be a nightmare if you're inexperienced, cock that up and the rest is a waste of time. |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by theswimmerswimming on Sep 8th, 2005, 9:16am Thanks for the feed back. I wasn't really thinking of doing anything technical. If you say I'm being a bit simplistic about the foundations (I thought it was bascally dig some big holes and partially fill with the right mix), are there any other jobs I could do. I guess I am wondering does anybody go out to a job where the home owner skivies for you, and if so how much does this really save? Kind regards Adrian |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by theswimmerswimming on Sep 8th, 2005, 9:36am Sorry One more quick question if possible I have read on this sight that as a budget figure you can look at about £1000 per sq metre. If it was a shell build as you suggested, what would be a more reasonable figure Kind regards Adrian |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by JerryD on Sep 8th, 2005, 7:06pm £1,000 per sq m is very simplistic, don't start thinking that's a quotation! For shell only you could probably say that's about 70% of the cost of a finished structure. btw, when ever a customer of mine has 'helped' it has been a flaming nuisance. Doesn't save a penny as the builder will be geared up to do his job as usual and your presence will be of little value to him. Health and Safety issues as well, have you got insurance? The builders Public Liability and Employers Liability Insurance will not cover you. |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by Bayden_Rank on Sep 8th, 2005, 8:30pm When I was younger and even more foolish than now I had an extension built. I agreed with the builders that I would dig out the foundations [not helped by my mother in law sweeping muck back into the excavation as soon as I shovelled it out. She really came close to being part of those foundations:-)], lay the concrete for the foundations and also the over site concrete. This was done with much discussion wth a very friendly local council Builiding inspector. Laying the foundations was a major effort using as I did a concrete mixer. I still recall to my shame taking advantage of a work colleague who, in passing, offered to help me. He had not realised that I had borrowed large industrial lights which allowed me to work into the darkness (no not the group). He finally got away at about 10-30 as knackered as was I. Forever after he walked the other way ;D I did all the fitting out, resiting boiler, plumbing, electrical work etc., other than the plastering - oh how simple and dangerous, was life before Part P and CORGI. I still go cold at the sight of that little blue flame disappearing down the pipe on its way towards the gas meter (turmed off I may add). The extension still stands 35+ years on. But I agree with Jerry D - do the fun stuff and leave the digging, cementation, gas and electrical to the pro's. |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by JerryD on Sep 8th, 2005, 9:54pm wrote on Sep 8th, 2005, 8:30pm:
er....... which bit's that then? :-/ :-/ :-/ ;D ;) |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by CWatters on Sep 9th, 2005, 5:57pm Quote:
The bit at the end that involves levering the cap off before applying bottle to mouth :) |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by JerryD on Sep 9th, 2005, 9:28pm wrote on Sep 9th, 2005, 5:57pm:
LOL ;D I'll drink to that ;D Hic ::) |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by JohnD on Jan 28th, 2006, 11:56pm As a novice who has an extension to start this year you are doing my morale a whole lot of no-good!! However, thanks in part to this website the house has been wired, plumbed, plastered (badly, in some places, and surprisingly well in others), has a new fire back and surround in the lounge and laminate flooring throughout on part new floorboarding. I think my current answer to 'what workload for a novice' is anything, given some experience, correct advice, suitable forward planning and a sympathetic building inspector - and a helpful website!! John Davies |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by WOLF on Jan 29th, 2006, 12:10am And i think i can speak for ALL the ATT trades people, in saying it is posts in threads such as yours JohnD which makes us glad to have helped people out with "sound" and good advise! even if it is not always the answer/s you had hoped for..... but the jobs are done, and SAFETLY done to boot!!! |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by WOLF on Jan 29th, 2006, 12:16am JD, and Theswimmerswimming(TSS) i have a local little builder mate, who when the client/customer asks what can i do to save money, actually has a small meeting with them (once the contract is signed/agreed upon!!) and will nominate SAFE jobs the home owner can actually do for him! this way, not only does the client/owner feel helpful, some of the work has been done at the weekends ready to start off on the following monday, and also the client/homeowner save a bit of their hard earned cash too!!! and i don't just mean the tea's JD.... and as for the insurance, check to make sure your own (TSS) policy , has a good liabilities clause that will cover your good self when work starts!!! as well as checking the builder you have agreed upon has Public liability insurance too!!!! |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by WOLF on Jan 29th, 2006, 12:20am and other point which can be very helpfull TSS, if you get on with the next doors, make sure you keep them up to date and informed of any major noises etc etc , as smoothing the way forward BEFORE work begins can really be a god send!!! have got one job at the mo, where main contractor/builder is not allowed to enter next doors , and has been having to work over hand, due to a tiff between client and neighbour due to the extension going up!! ??? ??? |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by JerryD on Jan 29th, 2006, 6:54am As a little tip to anyone employing a builder to do an extension for them, here's what we expect (hope for) on the day we start: 1) All your cars parked well out of the way, preferably not in the driveway. 2) Work area totally clear. How often have I turned up to start a job and the work area is covered in kids bikes, garden furniture, barbeque, hundreds of pot plants, washing line full of clothes, wheelie bins, that shed you promised would be gone, rabbit hutch etc etc..... 3) Please be out of bed and able to answer the front door! 4) Please have someone available to advise us where we can get water and power. 5) Don't invite relatives to stay in the new bedrooms we are building you - telling us they're coming in three weeks...... I'll add more as I think of them ;) |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by woodsmith on Jan 29th, 2006, 10:14am A couple more 6. Let the builders get on with the job, don't keep talking to them, but supply regular cups of tea. 7. Decide on exactly what you want before work starts, try not to change anything part way through. |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by JohnD on Feb 4th, 2006, 1:45am Couldn't agree more - in my experience many profesionals will quite happily divide up a job so that DIY'ers can save themselves a bob or two, as long is it is very clear who is doing what. Clearing the site beforehand, plastering, decoration, restoring gardens and turfing afterwards and indeed digging the odd hole can save time and money. Just don't get under a professionals feet...............A friend of mine let me do all the central heating plumbing in our house, supplied and fitted the boiler himself and commissioned and tested the system for me. Friend or not, he downed tools every time I entered (which I did only once or twice) and only picked them up as I left - he can't bear being watched while he is working. Neither can I, so that's alright! Bets of luck with the building scheme. John D |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by thescruff on Feb 13th, 2006, 1:08am I built a two story extension on the back. Done the lot from drawing the plans and getting them approved, to digging the footings, concreting, building the wall, and cutting and pitching an T shape roof over the new extension and the old house. Inside I did all the plastering, wiring and plumbing. 26 years and still standing 8) 8) 26years and still not finished either ;D ;D blame the health now, not done a thing for the last 12 years :-X |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by theswimmerswimming on Feb 14th, 2006, 11:20am Thanks for all your comments, from those who suggest stearing clear completely to those who have had successes themselves. I am curious, how someone like me could get started. "Thescruff", you said you did the whole lot, but where did you find out how to go about completing the drawings, and then what the building regs say about depth of foundations etc Any comments greatfully received |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by thescruff on Feb 14th, 2006, 6:15pm theswimmerswimming. Unfortunately the regs make what I did vertually impossible. I have worked in the building trade for nearly 47 years first for a jobbing builder where I did my citb craft certificates in plumbing. When he retired I work for a large building company as a plumber before running my own plumbing and heating company for 35 years. Drawing are easy when you know enough about the building trade, I actually scribbled mine on a few sheets of A3 and stuck them in for approval, then I made an appointment with the building officer and went through them with him, and he told me the bits to include and alter, get to know yours he will be very helpful. After that you just dig away untill you get to something solid, and the guy comes out and inspects them, ok you pour the concrete, or dig a bit more if he wants you too. After that scalpings and a wacker for the oversite, dust with sand, 1000g plastic membrane, and concrete the oversite, laying bricks/blocks is easy if you take your time, windows and doors you can make a wooden frame for removal later it's important to get them right at this stage. Roof I have A level woodwork from college, tiling is just a question of deviding the roof into rows, valley's I'm a plumber so lead is very easy. And having said all that the regs wouldn't allow me to do a retake legally that is. Scaffolding you cannot do, windows and doors have to be approved, pitching roofs a no go unless your a chippy, running around on roofs can be an occupational hazard, that the insurance co may not be happy about. inside, no longer can you do electrical work unless you have the tickets, joinery is part of the end product so needs to look good, fitting gas boilers I would not recommend, plumbing is also part of the end product. And anyone can swing a paint brush, but a good decorator at this stage provides the quality finish to all the trades. hope that sort of helps if not ask away |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by JerryD on Feb 14th, 2006, 9:26pm TSS, if you look at Scruff's post you'll see he has been in the building trade for 47 years. His two storey extension he built 26 years ago. Therefore he had been in the building trade some 21 years before embarking on this extension! You can gain quite a lot of knowledge in 21 years ;) All jobs are easy if you know how to do them. I build my current house (started 1981) and it is now quite large (extended about 4 times ;D) but I had been in the trade for about 9 years prior to that, building houses for a developer so it was all easy-peasey really (just bloody hard work). Doing these jobs yourself, with no technical knowledge, can lead to expensive mistakes. Nobody here can explain how to build an extension in a few posts. I could write 50 pages on foundations alone ;D I'm not trying to put you (or anyone) off. Just making you aware of the many pitfalls that await the unwary. I suggest (as my earlier post) getting the structural shell built professionally and you finish the inside. (still got to be done correctly though) I cannot see how a builder you might use would be able to get you to do anything for him that would save him time or money. Just shifting a few bricks or sweeping up does not save any money! How could you dig the foundations? Can you operate a mini digger? Sounds easy but if the trench ends up a foot wider all round because of poor digging you will have actually have spent MORE by doing it yourself due to more muck-away + more concrete needed. If you accidently ripped out a drain or water main or telecom cable or gas pipe or electric incomer, would you know what to do and how to fix it? Once you're out of the ground all work will be seen so it has to be done properly. Saving a few quid doing bits yourself may backfire if it all looks awful, it could actually de-value your house. I've seen so many DIY disasters over the years that I sometimes even think 'How the hell are you ever going to sell this house with that xyz' They've saved themselves a few hundred pounds initially but now it all has to be ripped out. Have a nice day ;D ::) ;) |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by HandyJon on Feb 16th, 2006, 11:02pm wrote on Feb 14th, 2006, 6:15pm:
Unless you get a propritrary (sp?) tower scaffolding system. But they have limitations. Quote:
Only in terms of double glazing and that doesn't stop you DIYing it and getting BC to check it out. FENSA is only about the DG unit's being up to spec, not the actual installation of the windows. They could fall out the day after installation but they would still meet FENSA specs. Quote:
You do need to get it right, but the architect should have produced the plans to show everything. Waste wood might be a bit high though. You could cheat and do like many other builders and get a trussed roof. Quote:
Get the insurance, it will still be necessary for the whole site anyway. Quote:
You can still DIY, but you'll need to tell your local BC beforehand and get them to check it out. Quote:
If you'requite good with wood then try it. If you can't even cut a straight line with a saw then don't bother. Only you know how good you are and what you're capable of doing. Quote:
But you can do the wet parts of the CH system and the DHW side. Quote:
Don't get a painting party in to finish it off. Drunk people trying to paint is not a good idea. And if anything, before you start anything read read and read again. Get books, read the net, ask anyone and everyone. Think it all out beforehand, then go though the motions as if doing it to get it right in your mind, then think again, then try it out before doing it for real. After I've said all this, in your case swimmer I would still get a builder into to do the work. The best time to learn is before you do a major job like an extension. What you can do, and this will help any builder, is to tidy up every evening. Clean out all the rubbish, make sure the materials they need are in place ready for them and make sure nothing is in their way. |
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Title: Re: Workload for a Novice Post by theswimmerswimming on Feb 17th, 2006, 8:25am Thanks again for all your comments. I will do as suggested and go and read everything I can get my hands on. Kind regards Adrian |
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