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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Building Questions >> Chimney Breast Removal https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1138615324 Message started by Bayden_Rank on Jan 30^th, 2006, 10:02am

Title: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by Bayden_Rank on Jan 30^th, 2006, 10:02am

My son has been persuaded by his future in-laws to remove the chimney breast. Future FIL and also BIL have removed them in similar houses on the same ('50's) development with allegedly no problems. I have urged caution but think he will go ahead. NB: Neither of these folk are builders by trade or training.

His future FIL removed one up to just above first floor ceiling level and used a a timber lintel(?) under the remaining chimney [that still carried on through the roof]. He claimed that many years after there had been no movement of the remaining bit of chimney as he was able to move the wedges he had put in place between bricks and the timber.

It worries the hell out of me and I have done a bit of DIY wall removal in the past but was always wary of chimneys.

Any advice really welcome. Thankfully he lives about 10 miles away so I will not be hit, unless visiting, should it fall ???

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by big_all on Jan 30^th, 2006, 10:18am

no builder but

if you can remove the wedges its not supporting anything

also believe the support should be fairly constant accross the width off the chimney and back towards the wall as in corbled or gallows brackets

if it was wedges tight what is the wooden beam resting on!!!!!

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by Bayden_Rank on Jan 30^th, 2006, 10:23am

wrote on Jan 30^th, 2006, 10:18am:

if it was wedges tight what is the wooden beam resting on!!!!!

The ceiling joists!

I agree that it would be better if it was to be corbelled or gallows bracketed but from how his future father in law has suggested it will be cut back at right angles to the wall.

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by JerryD on Jan 30^th, 2006, 7:09pm

It's like a lot of things in life, you can get away with it for years but suddenly........................

If it was my house I would definately do it properly. Ye Gods, a bit of timber wedged off the joists to support a chimney, are they mad!

No way in a million years would I do anything like that.

This type of thing is an insult to cowboys!

rant over :-X

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by Bayden_Rank on Jan 30^th, 2006, 7:39pm

Have to agree with you Jerry but he did not listen. His future brother in law turned up and before you could say Gerry Builder ;D the chimney breast between floor and ceiling of bedroom was gone ???

Think I will wear a hard hat when I next visit. Oh and my partner has asked if I mind her increasing the insurance policy she has on me :) Insurance policy? What blasted policy :o

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by JerryD on Jan 30^th, 2006, 7:48pm

They thought that ice rink in Germany was safe until about a month a ago. :(

They thought that building in Poland was safe until yesterday. :(

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by CWatters on Jan 31^st, 2006, 11:25am

Is this in a terrace or semi? It might be fine until the neighbours do the same. Then you have several tons of brick perched on a few floor joists of dubious vintage.

I guess he's too young to have seen that episode of "Some mothers do 'av 'em" where Frank moves house.

PS Can we have a scared or horrified smiley please?

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by CWatters on Jan 31^st, 2006, 12:08pm

I forgot a few things...

You do need Building Control Approval to take down a chimney breast. If it's on a party wall you also need to comply with the Party Wall Act.

and when they fall down they actually fall over and take the wall and roof with them...

Some googling reveals it's the third most common cause of building collapse...

http://www2.halton.gov.uk/content/environment/planning/buildingcontrolconsultancy/dangerousstructures

Quote:

Our surveyors have found that the most common causes of collapse are:-

*Removal of lateral restraint to walls.
*Failure of over-stressed piers.
*Inadequate support to chimney breasts.

http://www.lawteacher.net/Contract/Contents/Exclusion%20Clauses%20Cases.htm

Quote:

The surveyor negligently failed to check that a chimney breast which had been removed was properly supported. When the chimney collapsed the plaintiff sued the valuer.

http://www.glias.org.uk/news/195news.html

Quote:

Building collapses

Considerable disruption resulted following the partial collapse of a Victorian terraced shop in the Blackstock Road, Islington....<snip>... Renovation by insufficiently skilled builders can be quite a hazard. In this case it was probably work on a chimney breast which caused the problem.

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by Bayden_Rank on Jan 31^st, 2006, 6:38pm

Thanks for that CW - I was merely very worried before but now need a change of underpants and fast :o

BTW my son is bigger and fitter than me and old enough to make his own mistakes - I just wish he would listen to me not his future in-laws. He must get it from my late MIL his maternal Grandmother :-/

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by JerryD on Jan 31^st, 2006, 7:03pm

Print this topic and give it to him, it might just make him think about what he's doing.

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by Bayden_Rank on Feb 1^st, 2006, 8:29am

wrote on Jan 31^st, 2006, 7:03pm:

Print this topic and give it to him, it might just make him think about what he's doing.

Will do Jerry. The most embarassing thing is that he is turning out just like my current neighbour who believes that surveyors, planning rules and building control do not refer to him >:(

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by CWatters on Feb 1^st, 2006, 5:45pm

Does he know that HIPS are coming? When his in-laws try and sell their house in a few years they might get a surprise.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1002882&PressNoticeID=1996

Currently very few buyers go for a full structural survey (They rely on their Building Societies valuation inspection instead) but HIPs will require the seller to get a reasonably detailed inspection done. I imagine that we will see HIP reports that say things like...

"Chimney breast recently removed. We were unable to asertain if this alteration was carried out in accordance with the Building Regulations. The seller was unable to provide details of Building Control Approval. We do not accept liability for...."

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by JerryD on Feb 1^st, 2006, 6:39pm

wrote on Feb 1^st, 2006, 5:45pm:

"Chimney breast recently removed. We were unable to asertain if this alteration was carried out in accordance with the Building Regulations. The seller was unable to provide details of Building Control Approval. We do not accept liability for........"

.................sentence stops as chimney falls on surveyor ::) :(

Title: Re: Chimney Breast Removal
Post by CWatters on Feb 2^nd, 2006, 10:57am

;D LOL ;D