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https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl DIY Forum >> Carpentry Questions >> Router table https://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1243420214 Message started by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 11:30am

Title: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 11:30am

Hi all,
I am looking for a router table, for making furniture type things on things on, which can take a 1/2" router.
I am looking to buy something on Fleabay (to keep costs down and get more bang for my buck). There seem to be loads, some made by people I have never heard of and some big brand names, some look like plastic tat and others look solid. Too many choices :-?
Are there any tables that you would recommend or steer away from?

Title: Re: Router table
Post by H Tim Sdoow on May 27^th, 2009, 11:40am

I had a DeWalt 2000, portable but that made it too lightweight for its own good.

After a good look round I made my own

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 12:18pm

If I had the £££ and space this would be on my list ;D
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FELDER-Table-Saw-Spindle-Moulder-Planer-Thicknesser_W0QQitemZ180361268882QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET?hash=item29fe5e8e92&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688|66%3A4|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A200

Title: Re: Router table
Post by lla_gib on May 27^th, 2009, 12:26pm

rutland seem to have removed a few accsesorys from there table to reduce the price
at least at that price worth a punt as you can make your own fittings and more substancial spring loaded guide fences and supports
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/DK2009

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 2:00pm

I quite like this...
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/F60200
there is somebody selling them on Fleabay for £179 + £20 delivery (Rutlands £299).
I like the idea of the sliding carriage.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by CWatters on May 27^th, 2009, 3:19pm

Perhaps buy an insert plate and make your own table? Axminster sell a few plates at £40-£50.

There is a nice home made table here that uses a Trend t11. This has a fine height adjuster that can be adjusted from above the table..

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32655&highlight=router+insert

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 4:39pm

I would love to make a table like that but I don't think I will be able to, given my current set-up (none at all!) and I think the cost of all the bits and bobs (including inserts for £40 - 50) will cost more than buying a purpose made router table. You can buy a (cheap and nasty) new router table for less than the inserts.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 4:43pm

H Tim could you post a picture of your home-made (not really home-made, more workshop made) router table pls?

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Joiner on May 27^th, 2009, 5:27pm

To get a proper job you really need a cast-iron table. Record do one which is quite good, but Charnwood's is brilliant because the table is split and the one half slides so the action is VERY stable...

http://www.charnwood.net/ProductDesc.jsp?cat=15&stockref=W015

...it's the one I use for smaller mouldings because it saves setting up the spindle moulder - and you can use the vast range of readily available router cutters.

There's also one that operates very like a spindle moulder, allowing infinite adjustment if your router doesn't have the micro adjustment. I'll have a look and find the link. It was on offer a while back and I was very tempted to get one for site work. I saw one in Paskins in Kiddy and was very impressed, despite its not having the cast-iron table and only taking the 6-8mm cutters.

In fact this is it...

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/bs50-spindle-moulder/path/combination-machines-spindle-moulder-2

Title: Re: Router table
Post by H Tim Sdoow on May 27^th, 2009, 6:10pm

wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 4:43pm:

H Tim could you post a picture of your home-made (not really home-made, more workshop made) router table pls?

I thought who's this H Tim, then the penny dropped, perhaps its time to change it back ::) ;D

I've seen plenty of the cast table/ sliding alloy carriage router tables about. They all seem to be made in the same factory and then badged up with the odd additional feature depending on badge.

I wanted an all singing dancing table so the only option was to build one myself. Not cheap though, I could have bought several cast iron ones for the same money.

[gallery]woodsmith/1243442843.jpg[/gallery]
The table has a short fence running front to back, adjusted by an Incra LS Positioner I can use it for very detailed work when I need to work to fine tollerances. It has a 36mm MDF top, laminated with Formica, together with the rest of the carcase it weighs a tonne! The router is completely enclosed in the central compartment and is one of the quietest machines in the shop.

[gallery]woodsmith/1243442841.jpg[/gallery]

It also has a long fence running along the table, it pivots at one end and is clamped at the other.

[gallery]woodsmith/1243442844.jpg[/gallery]
The router is fitted in a Woodpecker chain driven lift, like the Incra fence it is accurate to about a 1/1000". The router has an Xtreme extension fitted to allow changes above the table.

Both fences are tall and have T slots allowing me to fit hold downs above the cutter, with the addition of a hold down fitted in the table the blade is completely covered. Router tables can be dangerous because it is easy to climb cut by accident.

Dust extraction is via a 100mm duct, split between the router enclosure and the fence and is normally as near 100% as you can get.

Despite the weight it is on wheels and I can relatively easily move it round the workshop. Together with the mass of storage it holds I wouldn't like to be without it.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by lla_gib on May 27^th, 2009, 6:21pm

keith i need to build a more sofisticated table like yours ;D ;D
i built this one years ago at the great cost off well not a lot

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 6:44pm

I don't remember seeing it Keith, it looks the business!! Like you said it would cost a lot more than the off-the-shelf versions.

Joiner the first one you linked to is the same as the one I am interested in, just a re-badged version (the one I linked to earlier for £179). They are not cheap but they do look pretty good (based on what I can see on my PC). I don't know of anybody who sells them locally so I can go and kick the tyres?

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 8:08pm

I have now found 3 "manufacturers" selling the same router table!
Charnwood W015
Record Professional Router Table RPMS
Fox F60-200

So who actually makes/distributes them and is there a way of getting one cheap?

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Joiner on May 27^th, 2009, 8:11pm

R S Paskins. Dave (manager), Rob, and Chris will look after you.

Go into Kiddy, under the railway viaduct to the big island and take the first exit to Stourport. Keep going across the lights, over the pedestrian crossing and when you're over the hump of the railway bridge, past the old beet factory and look out for the filter road to the right. Take a right and the road goes through a tight 's' with a l/h turn out of the apex towards Brintons. Take that left and look out for the motorbike shop on the right. Paskins is immediately after it.

If you come via Stourport from Worcester, head into Kiddy and at the first major light-controlled junction take a left and immediate right onto the estate road that runs parallel to the main road. Paskins is a few hundred yards on the left, just before the caravan snack bar.

Problem is, they don't always have their full stock, although the place is packed to the eaves with goodies that will give you an idea. If it's not there they'll get it in and deliver it, no problem.

My experience of Charnwood is good, both in terms of their build and their after-sales.

I've had that particular router table for four and a half years and it gets a regular belting! And it's accurate to whatever you set it at! For scribed joints it's spot on, with little (if any) breakout even on cheapo redwood.

Our posts crossed there mate. Go for the Charnwood, they might LOOK similar but they differ in important detail. I had the Record before the Charnwood.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by FLOW on May 27^th, 2009, 8:20pm

H TIM wrote!! "
Quote:

I wanted an all singing dancing table

"

and i've heard it sing!!!!!!...Ouch!!! (sorry WS)

seriously, looks really good,

i will add that Axminster do a few good cheap to mid range table tops/inserts and fences, or like moi, i bought a mid rannge table, and am in the process of altering it to be a fully mobile table to suit what i need!!

Title: Re: Router table
Post by H Tim Sdoow on May 27^th, 2009, 8:20pm

Z you have to think what you are likely to use the table for. Do you need a sliding table? I imagine you would only really need that for tennoning, so are going to start cutting tennons on the router table?

Otherwise a flat top with a router insert would probably work as well. You can easily make a fence, pivot it at one end and clamp it at the other. Fit a T track to the top for a mitre fence and hang the table on the wall when you are not using it.

BA yours works, and its definately good value for money ;D

Title: Re: Router table
Post by lla_gib on May 27^th, 2009, 8:46pm

woodsmith wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 8:20pm:

BA yours works, and its definately good value for money ;D

if i renew the sticky tape and clean up the dust off the workmate any chance off a swop as i havent got an nvr on mine ::) ::) ;)

Title: Re: Router table
Post by H Tim Sdoow on May 27^th, 2009, 9:26pm

Have you got a fork lift?

I'll leave it you in my will ;D

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 9:57pm

woodsmith wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 8:20pm:

I am not too sure yet :-? I would love a set-up like yours (not just the router table but the whole lot) and I am a good few years off from that at the moment. I don't want to spend a chunk of ££ on something only to find I need/want to upgrade it down the line. If I can get a good one with the sliding table etc for not much more than a standard one, then I would rather spend the extra few ££ on it now. As it is it looks I can get a £300ish table for £200, which is a good investment in my books. I would love a nice spindle moulder but they are not cheap and the cutters can cost a fortune, so a router table is a compromise.

I don't think I will ever make a living from woodwork, it is something I used to enjoy and want to get back into. If I can find half decent kit for a decent price then I will buy it and who knows I may end up with a workshop to rival yours one day WS ;D I don't spend my money on booze, fags or drugs so I may as well invest in workshop full of nice toys, to keep me away from the booze, fags and drugs ;D

Thanks for the info on R S Paskins Joiner, I will see if I can get there sometime in the near future.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by H Tim Sdoow on May 27^th, 2009, 10:08pm

Quote:

I don't spend my money on booze, fags or drugs so I may as well invest in workshop full of nice toys, to keep me away from the booze, fags and drugs

Good thinking, I hope the logic works as well with Mrs Z as it did with Mrs W ;)

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 27^th, 2009, 10:21pm

woodsmith wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 10:08pm:

Quote:

I don't spend my money on booze, fags or drugs so I may as well invest in workshop full of nice toys, to keep me away from the booze, fags and drugs

Good thinking, I hope the logic works as well with Mrs Z as it did with Mrs W ;)

No! She would rather spend it on wine and holidays ::)

Title: Re: Router table
Post by lla_gib on May 28^th, 2009, 12:21am

woodsmith wrote on May 27^th, 2009, 9:26pm:

Have you got a fork lift?

I'll leave it you in my will ;D

thanks keith do they deliver to the other side both need an lift with long cables its the same in the top floor or basament option
if you leave it to me in your will you can show me how to use it when you visit ::) ::) ;D

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Joiner on May 28^th, 2009, 8:29am

If you're making windows - and that's the bulk of a joiner's work - then you need a stable base when scribing the rails and glazing bars, which that sliding table will give you.

One other tip, if you're scribing the bars on, say, an original Georgian-style window and you're working on 1/2" width the danger of breakout is real. Run the piece across the cutter in REVERSE, from left to right and you'll get a good clean cut. BUT, you won't get a good even cut unless the piece is firmly held on a stable base because it will push away from the cutter. You can do a number of runs to even the cut, but then you're working off the original set up because the end of the piece has lost the fraction of its length that originally abutted the fence.

If you want to see that machine in action, you can come across to the workshop and see it for yourself, you can then make an informed decision. I'll PM my mobile number, but don't get fazed if you can't get me, I'm working in a crap cellphone area!

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 28^th, 2009, 8:34am

Thanx Joiner, I may just take you up on your offer ;D

Title: Re: Router table
Post by londonman on May 28^th, 2009, 9:47pm

Shame on you!

Make your own...you're welcome to come over and make it here!

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Zambezi on May 28^th, 2009, 10:41pm

londonman wrote on May 28^th, 2009, 9:47pm:

Shame on you!

Make your own...you're welcome to come over and make it here!

Last time I spoke to you you said that you could not get into your workshop because it was too full!

Title: Re: Router table
Post by TIMBA-WOLF on May 29^th, 2009, 12:39am

Quote:

If you're making windows - and that's the bulk of a joiner's work

Pardon...since when... (if your Fensa approved??)

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Joiner on May 29^th, 2009, 8:36am

Since whenever.

And I've never been Fensa approved, nor would I ever seek it, for three reasons:

1. Working on old properties the work is usually done under Conservation (especially if Listed or Article 4) and the work (method, design and materials) has therefore to be approved by the CO, before, during and on completion before it's signed off.

2. If within a conservation area and retaining PDR (no Article 4) then the work will be done under notice; surveyed by the BCO prior to start and inspected by them on completion.

3. Having worked with and for Fensa registered window fitters my first-hand experience is that Fensa is a licence for cowboys (even those with otherwise excellent woodworking skills) to get away with murder and it's something I wouldn't associate myself with. It's like the various trade "guilds" and "federations", if you can pay the entrance money and do the job on the day their guy comes to check you're in. It's a joke and has been since inception. Classing it in the same category as the gas or electrical regulatory bodies is an insult to them.

We've got a guy who's just started operating locally who's touting himself as a "conservation expert" and has targeted conservation areas. An ex-director of a upvc company, he's Fensa registered and fitting timber windows. He's "started to come to the notice" of local COs having fitted totally inappropriate windows which the customers, who only realised what was happening when the windows were in, had taken his word for as being right. He's done a lot of damage and, by undercutting the established guys (who quoted to do the work properly), has done them a lot of harm as well. (I'll mention that that doesn't include me, with a full order book until the middle of August.)

My work is inspected at every significant point in the process and signed off by an objective, independent party. Self-regulation is neither objective nor independent, which is why it's not for me.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by TIMBA-WOLF on May 29^th, 2009, 9:46am

ME thinks you missed my point!!!

i was refering to the fact that as a joiner, i manufacture windows VERY RARELY!!!(unless for the Heritage bods....) and not being the bulk of my joinery work... only about 2% is windows..

as for fensa being cowboy allowed, i totally agree with you!! witnessed loads of dodgy work!!!

Title: Re: Router table
Post by londonman on May 29^th, 2009, 5:30pm

Spot on, Joiner. I hate the mass produced windows that are all wood and no glass. Ugly brown colour. Mind you, not as bad as uPVC windows.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Joiner on May 29^th, 2009, 5:48pm

Sorry Wolfie, woke up in a bad mood after a crap night with a cricked neck from working in a confined space.

Funny how different guys find themselves doing more of one thing than another. Probably 80% of my work is windows because refurbing a whole house means all the windows and just a couple of doors, maybe three or four staircases a year, and then it's primarily repair of the stairs and just replacement of the sticks and handrail. Having said that and given some thought to it, I haven't done a 'proper' staircase job at all this last twelve months. Just finished repairing one (same job that gave me the cricked neck) and due to start the repair of one sometime next week. That's an 18th century one that just needs a couple of carriages to support the treads, running onto an oak beam socketed into the stone wall one end and supported on a new newel post at the other. Relatively easy to work on because it runs over cellar steps so access to the underside is good. It's on acrows at the minute!!

I suppose it's a case of one job running into a similar kind of job because my work comes mainly from referrals and from the CO, who's only called in when major work is proposed to a Listed building or someone asks their advice on a property in a conservation area, which somewhat rules out kitchens and fitted wardrobes. No regrets there though, kitchens were the bane of my bloody life - or rather the customers were. That is one area where I have walked away from more jobs than any other type. They did my effing head in.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by H Tim Sdoow on May 29^th, 2009, 6:23pm

FENSA is a scandal, people think they are getting an insurance backed warranty through FENSA itself. Nothing could be further from the truth. They don't want to know if anything goes wrong.

But I have to pay the BCO £160 every time I fit a window.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Joiner on May 29^th, 2009, 10:01pm

I don't know why Woodie, these are the scale of fees for BC in the Shropshire council area...

http://www.shropshire.gov.uk/planning.nsf/viewAttachments/MSER-7QFJYX/$file/building-control-fees.pdf.pdf

And they're the ones that have always applied in the (old) Bridgnorth DC area.

I always leave all the apllication to the customer, although I'll go through the process with them. I'll occasionally act as agent if the customer is elderly (bit ironic, given my age!), but they pay all the fees, which I always get up front.

If I was on Fensa and insured for guarantee purposes I'd be putting at least £150 on each job anyway to cover myself.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by woodsmith on May 30^th, 2009, 8:40am

The £160 was a guess, I couldn't remember exactly ::)

Anyway I've just looked up my last couple of payments and they were both for £141. This was to Shrewsbury and Atcham so perhaps they had a different fee structure.

Title: Re: Router table
Post by Joiner on May 30^th, 2009, 11:30am

Sorry Z, moving off the OP now so have moved this discussion onto another thread. See above...!