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siezed stopcock (Read 6091 times)
JohnDavies
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siezed stopcock
Jan 28th, 2005, 11:22am
 
We have bought a semi which is on a shared supply, piped in lead.

There is an internal stopcock in which the washer has gone.

There is a branch stopcock which we have unearthed  in the rear garden under our boundary fence which seems to  feed both houses. It was well buried and, not surprisingly, is totally siezed.

According to our Water Board there should be a further stopcock - theirs - under the pavement.  The normal thing around here apparently was to have a branch to four houses, running up between the middle two houses and then splitting again, with a Board stoptap under the pavement and a further shared branch stoptap between each two houses. Each house then had its own internal stoptap also.

The Board stoptap has however been tarmaced over. They have been promising to do something about this for six months but no light at the end of the tunnel as yet.

Several questions

Is the correct size and type of stopcock to replace the one in the garden still available?  The 1" of copper pipe it is joined to 'heavy half inch' which is what the house was plumbed in, with a wiped joint either side.  I do not really want to form new wiped joints, I would rather just fit a new tap to what is there.

Failing this, I could repack the one inside the house and then use it in the garden - once the Board have enabled me to cut off the supply. But is hemp still available to repack the tap?  I have asked at my local plumbers merchants but the lad did not know what I was talking about.

Secondly - is there any way I can force the water Board to fit a new tap at the end of thier supply under the pavement? Or to cut off the supply in the road - there are two main WB shutoffs at either end of the street -  whilst I replace the tap in the garden?  

There is an easy answer - just fit a second stop tap behind my existing one - i.e. further into the house (the washer is only just starting to go) and forget the whole ruddy thing. However, if I do this there is still the risk of cutting off the supply if I manage to breach the supply pipe during building work - very likely as we don't know exactly where the thing goes.

Replacing in plastic isn't really an option, both financially and practically - legally we would have to cut off our own old feed at our neighbours branch, so the Board informs us,  and as far as any of us can tell this is buried a foot down under our concrete dining room floor. They want £800 ish for a new supply anyway, so they can forget that.

All opinions welcome!

John D


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« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2005, 5:03pm by tjohndavies »  
 
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JohnDavies
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Re: siezed stopcock
Reply #1 - Jan 28th, 2005, 5:00pm
 
The lastest:-

I have spoken again to the Board who say that since Dec 2004 they have changed policy and no longer replace stoptaps as they can freeze pipes.

Brilliant.  I can't, especially lead ones. 15mm copper yes, 30-35mm lead, no, not a chance.

On reminding them that the Branch stoptap is siezed as well they are reconsidering their position. We live in hope.

Watch this space.


John D.

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« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2005, 5:01pm by tjohndavies »  
 
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Plumber
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Re: siezed stopcock
Reply #2 - Jan 28th, 2005, 8:58pm
 
I think you will find that they must supply you with a working stopcock by law, if their valve has been covered by tarmac it is down to them to expose it, tell them that you are going to contact WRAS, Water Regulations Advisory Scheme for advice on the matter.
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AlanE
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Re: siezed stopcock
Reply #3 - Jan 30th, 2005, 4:40pm
 
Not too sure about supplying a company stopcock by law as there are many places in my area supplied off a 'sub' main where upwards of 10-20 properties controlled by valve in road.

I also read somewhere that in London they are filling the access holes in pavement with concrete to prevent nuisance calls.

Alan
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Re: siezed stopcock
Reply #4 - Jan 30th, 2005, 5:54pm
 
They have to provide a means of isolation, they state that it is the householders responsibility for the
underground mains from their stopvalve in the pavement, I would take it no stopvalve not my responsibility, there has to be a cut off point between the water suppliers responsibility and the householders
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JohnDavies
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Re: siezed stopcock
Reply #5 - Jan 30th, 2005, 10:49pm
 
I have checked the websites of  WaterVoice, Water consumers organisation, and also Ofwat, which told me nothing.

According to Watervoice,

'The water company is responsible for the water main in the road.  It is also normally responsible for the section of supply pipe that runs from the water main to the boundary of your property.  This may be to a stop tap under the road or pavement.

In most cases the property owner is responsible for the service pipe that runs from the company stop tap on the main or supply pipe to the property.  If you own the property it is your responsibility to keep this pipe in good order in the same way in which you are responsible for plumbing in the house.  If you rent the house the pipe is your landlord's responsibility (unless your rental agreement states differently).'


Sounds good so far.  But.....


'The company stop valves are not intended for household use. They are the property of the company and there is no time limit for their repair. Some properties built before 1946 may not have one.

If you have a leak or need to turn off the water at the company stop valve and are unable to do so and your water company refuses to repair it quickly, your plumber might be able to advise on how to deal with the situation.

Alternatively the company may provide you with a street shut down to enable you to carry out internal works. Companies may charge for this.

If you or your plumber are carrying out work on a shared supply you must inform those affected of any work that may interrupt their water supply'


Not so good at all.

I have spoken again to the Board who tell me that since 2nd. Dec, they have stopped replacing Company stopcocks as they can either isolate streets, or freeze pipes.  When I pointed out that I can do neither and that it is not only a case of my own stopcock but also the branch stockcock needing attention, and that freezing lead pipes is not very straightforward and cannot be done with straightforward freezing kits, they agreed to at least come out and look at the situation and see if their own stopcock can be got working.

They promised to do this within two days.

Watch this space.  I have only been waiting since August.

Looks as if I am back to the 'install a second stopcock in the house ' idea otherwise.  Or working on a pipe which is gushing water.  ( did this once in an emergency at my fathers old house which had no stopcock whatever - never again).  Or making two keys so as to turn off the street at 4.00 a.m.   Or something!!

John D
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Re: siezed stopcock
Reply #6 - Jan 31st, 2005, 1:07am
 
Don't forget the big one that turns the street off is lefthanded  Grin
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JohnD
Re: siezed stopcock
Reply #7 - Feb 7th, 2005, 12:49am
 
The WaterBoard have been, have dusted off the painted blue rectangle on the pavement which they sprayed there last August, and have gone away again........

Continue to watch this space........it could be a long wait.  Wink


JohnD
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JohnD
Re: siezed stopcock
Reply #8 - Apr 1st, 2005, 1:03am
 
Wow! Sorted!

A waterman - what a lovely old fashioned sounding title - called round two weeks ago and left a card to say that they thought they might have found the supply (!) and that he would mark the card 'urgent'.

I thought 'Pull the other one - it's been marked urgent by quite a few people since August!'

A fresh blue mark appeared on the pavement - and then, much to my surprise, it was replaced a few days ago by a nice new stopcock, which seems to serve all four houses.

Now all I have to do it replace the one in the garden and find out if it supplies only us or our neighbour as well, and I am in business.

I owe a certain waterman a pint.

Thanks to all who responded.

JohnD
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