Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Welcome To Ask The Trades!
Apr 5th, 2026, 7:18pm
Quote: If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.


Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
New Wire (Read 14242 times)
oldspark
GDPR opt-out









New Wire
Jun 15th, 2009, 11:30pm
 
Hi guys, doing a new wire for inlaws not done one for a while,(industrial spark)some big changes in 17th edition I see.
Unsure what dist board layout to use ie split board 1 30mA rcd or individual rcbo's (costly)or just mcb's with rcd cover. I have 16th and 2391 inspect and test certs back in 2005.  Got to confirm if TT or TN-CS. There is an earth rod outside front door. The circuits are as follows:-power up RMain, power down RMain, power kitchen RMain, LT up, LT down, LT kitchen, LT outside.2 smoke alarms linked. 6mm feed to garage.
4mm radial feed to outside socket IP rated.Sorry for being long winded. I'am up to speed with the requirments of equiportential bonding but Iam uncertain of what board layout to use. I will be doing the relevant tests to comply.Thanks
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8815


Total Thanks: 109
For This Post: 0


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: New Wire
Reply #1 - Jun 16th, 2009, 6:09am
 
Sounds pretty standard.

If you cannot afford (as most can't) RCBO's for al circuit, just use a new 17th edition DUAL split load consumer unit.

You can also get some of these which have a few unprotected ways which are good for the submain to the garage for example, aslong as the cable is routed correctly to negate the need for RCD protection.

DO NOT use a single 30mA RCD to cover the entire install - this is not compliant.

If you do have TT, I strongly recommend having it converted to TN-C-S.  Depending on your DNO, this could cost as little as £18.
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
oldspark
Re: New Wire
Reply #2 - Jun 16th, 2009, 8:47pm
 
If I go for cheaper option dual split board ,you mentioned don't use 30mA RCD to cover all inst, is this because of too sensitive. what do you recommend.Also garage feed I've made sure run in ok and safe, what boards available for this sub connection ? I don't want to instal an additional isolator at main distribution for garage I'd rather come off board you mentioned.Also I will be installing a small sub consumers unit in garage fed from said board with its own RCD protection is that ok (powering up 2 double sockets + lighting in garage). Also should I run in 10mm earth with the 6mm garage supply.
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8815


Total Thanks: 109
For This Post: 0


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: New Wire
Reply #3 - Jun 16th, 2009, 8:56pm
 
A dual split load board is used to satisfy the regulations in terms of convenience and safety.

Safety - not in the sence of protection, but in the sence that if there is a fault you only loose half of your power (lights).  You should have wired your property with a couple lighting circuits and a couple socket circuits (ideally a couple per floor).  You then place the socket circuit serving one area on one RCD and the lighting circuit serving that same area on the other RCD.  This way, if an RCD fails you still have power available to most parts of an installation.

If the cable to the shed/garage is SWA or routed so as not to require RCD protection (no burried in a wall less than 2" etc) then you do not need to RCD protect it at the origin, you can supply it from a non RCD protected way (some dual split loads have a few non RCD ways).  You could then use a consumer unit with RCD incomer in the shed/garage.  No need for a dual split out there.

You do not need to supplement the earth to your shed unless there is main equipotential bonding that needs to be done out there?
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
wozzy
Trade Member
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 584


Total Thanks: 4
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: New Wire
Reply #4 - Jun 16th, 2009, 9:45pm
 
If it does turn out to be TNCS there will be issues to connsider of exporting this to the shed/garage.

I can talk most customers into having a RCBO board but in this case it may be a bit too costly. Depends how much the inlaws want to spend.


Back to top
 

All advice is at least two years out of date.
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
oldspark
Re: New Wire
Reply #5 - Jun 16th, 2009, 9:49pm
 
Thanks again. The new wire first fix is not yet complete . I'm open to sujestions , with the dual boards we've talked about, am i right in saying both sides can be protected with individual RCD'S.
Last board I've done years ago half on RCD half not (with mcb's)
Would you protect all circuits via an RCD?
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
oldspark
Re: New Wire
Reply #6 - Jun 16th, 2009, 9:54pm
 
What issues might I have if turns out to be TN-CS?
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8815


Total Thanks: 109
For This Post: 0


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: New Wire
Reply #7 - Jun 16th, 2009, 9:55pm
 
All circuits need MCBs or fuses as they always do.  The RCD does a different supplementary job.

17th edition DUAL Split Load (with a couple non RCD protected ways.
17th Edition Dual Split Load CU

16th edition 'traditional' Split Load
16th Edition Traditional Split Load CU

Not my choice of brand, but it's what google found  Smiley
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2009, 10:09pm by Lectrician »  

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
wozzy
Trade Member
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 584


Total Thanks: 4
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: New Wire
Reply #8 - Jun 16th, 2009, 10:02pm
 
not my choice either lec but reasonably priced, and readily avaliable  Smiley
Back to top
 

All advice is at least two years out of date.
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
oldspark
Re: New Wire
Reply #9 - Jun 16th, 2009, 10:14pm
 
This is brill .Thanks for pics. Not your choice of board though. what would brand name be of your choice? or do you mean RCBO'S board? is prefrence to you.

What do you think is the biggest significant change in the 17th edition?
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
wozzy
Trade Member
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 584


Total Thanks: 4
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: New Wire
Reply #10 - Jun 16th, 2009, 10:57pm
 
brand preference was being refered to, i like hager boards for the money, but its a personal choice.  
Other will say they prefer others personal choice really.  Just dont buy cheap unbranded not BS standard boards which you will see for cheap on a internet aution site.
If you can persaude them to have a RCBO board i would go for crabtree.



Back to top
 

All advice is at least two years out of date.
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
wozzy
Trade Member
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 584


Total Thanks: 4
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: New Wire
Reply #11 - Jun 16th, 2009, 10:59pm
 
you may find this good reading

http://www.esc.org.uk/forum/index.html
Back to top
 

All advice is at least two years out of date.
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8815


Total Thanks: 109
For This Post: 0


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: New Wire
Reply #12 - Jun 17th, 2009, 7:56am
 
I would always go for MEM, but these are premium prices.
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Y3
Re: New Wire
Reply #13 - Jun 17th, 2009, 12:05pm
 
Quote:
What issues might I have if turns out to be TN-CS?


There is the issue of a loss of supply neutral which could make your earth, any exposed and extraneous conductive parts connected to it, become 230v. If you have extraneous conductive parts in the garage, then you would need to export the equipotential zone from within the house, to it, using 10mm earth. There are mixed opinions on this, and the prefered option if you do have PME is not to export it at all and TT the garage, earthing the armour in the house CU, but not in the garage. If you have extraneous conductive parts in the garage, i.e water, then bond these to the MET of the small consumer unit, where the TT's earth is also connected. A single 30mA rcd main switch will be ok in this instance, because its a couple circuits in a garage, it wont affect the house install in anyway.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2009, 12:08pm by cosbycarl »  
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
CWatters
Super Member
*****
Offline

"Daddy fick it" says James

Posts: 5150


Total Thanks: 58
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Re: New Wire
Reply #14 - Jun 17th, 2009, 5:35pm
 
While on the subject... Should there be some sort of residual current device (RCD or RCBO) protecting a cooker radial?

In my CU I appear to have an incoming isolation switch feeding a group of MCB (one per each lighting circuit) and a group of RCBO (one per each power circuit)... but I noticed the cooker just has a B40 MCB.

In the kitchen there is a cooker switch (only a switch, no socket) feeding a cooker connection unit hard wired to oven.  

Installation is about 3 years old.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2009, 5:37pm by CWatters »  
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Y3
Re: New Wire
Reply #15 - Jun 17th, 2009, 5:39pm
 
If the wiring to the cooker switch and cooker isnt buried, i.e, surface trunking, then no it doesnt need an RCD protecting it. If the cable is buried less than 50mm in the wall, then it does. If this is an existing install of which your doing a PIR, then a code 4 would be applied to the buried cable scenario I just mentioned.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2009, 5:55pm by cosbycarl »  
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
Zambezi
Re: New Wire
Reply #16 - Jun 17th, 2009, 6:53pm
 
CWatters
If your install is 3 years old then it was done to the 16th ed, no need for RCD.
If it was a new install to the 17th ed then follow Y3's post above.
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print