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Dot and dab damp? (Read 21157 times)
Zambezi
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Dot and dab damp?
Feb 12th, 2010, 2:50pm
 
I was asked to look at a property today where they have damp patches showing through the plasterboard on the walls in the bedroom. It seems the plasterboard has been dot and dabbed and then skimmed. The exterior wall is brick built, with a flat roof above, so no overhang/eaves to divert water away from the walls.
Somebody else quoted to dot and dab the walls and then redecorate but I don't think that will solve the problem, only mask it for a few months.

I am sure some of it is just normal condensation but some looks too "wet" to be condensation.

I was thinking of stripping off the D&D and then fitting insulated plasterboard using D&D. Part of me thinks that this will prevent the damp/moisture forming on the walls (as it is now) but there will still be a possibility of damp where the walls and floor meet. Alternatively using foil backed plasterboard to act as a vapour barrier.

Rendering/cladding the outside wall is not an option as it is a block of flats.

Any ideas or suggestions?
Damp walls
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2010, 5:37pm by zambezi »  
 
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JerryD
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Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #1 - Feb 12th, 2010, 7:30pm
 
I would want to find the cause of the damp (poss damp coming through the wall + poss condensation - possibly both) and fix that first.  Is it a cavity wall?
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Zambezi
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Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #2 - Feb 12th, 2010, 9:56pm
 
I think it is a cavity wall, it is a flat that has been built above a shop and the estate they are in was probably built in the late sixties to mid seventies.
Without ripping the plasterboard off the inside walls I can only imagine they have a combination of condensation and damp.
The 2 bad walls are exterior walls that have no roof overhang, porous bricks and probably something bridging the cavity.

If the client was willing I would strip off the plasterboard, possibly remove a couple of bricks/blocks from the internal skin to see what is going on in the cavity.

I have inherited the job because the first guy quoted, the job was accepted and then he did not want to do it.
It is not really clear what he quoted to do? There was mention of 3 air bricks, dry lining and decorating.
Where he was planning on fitting the air bricks I have no idea?
Why you would take off dry lining only to put more up I have no idea?
The decorating is self explanatory.
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CWatters
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Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #3 - Feb 12th, 2010, 11:25pm
 
Is the ground outside higher?

I think I'd have a small bit of the plasterboard off and see if the wall behind is damp.

If the wall isn't damp then my guess would be that the wall isn't well insulated so the plasterboard is colder where it's attached to the wall and that's causing condensation to be concentrated in those areas.  

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woodsmith
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Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #4 - Feb 13th, 2010, 8:52am
 
My house has damp walls with foam backed plasterboard dot and dabbed on, it is not an ideal solution but it does work. It is better to fit some vents in the wall then build an insulated stud wall in front of the damp wall, but it does take a fair bit of space off the room.
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Zambezi
Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #5 - Feb 13th, 2010, 9:52am
 
CW the flat is above a shop so there is a long way to the ground  Grin

WS if I was to fit air bricks of some sort to the existing wall, would that be through the 2 brick skins or just through the one into the cavity?

I was planning on using 35mm insulated plasterboard either battened or dot and dabbed to the brick. I am not too sure I can take much off the room because it is not the biggest of rooms to start with. There will be loads of hassle around the window opening and there is a built-in wardrobe that is out of shot on the other wall that will need to be removed  Sad.

I know, I will paint the wall with stain block, then emulsion it and run...
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woodsmith
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Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #6 - Feb 13th, 2010, 12:25pm
 
On mine they have put vents right through the wall, but with only 35mm insulated plasterboard you are not going to get a lot of insulation and the wall could still be cold??

You could skim the wall with a sand cement mixed with a waterproofing additive, that is something some of the builders do round here with barn coversions. Others line the wall with a breathable membrane then batten the wall for plasterboard. You takes your pick Wink
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JerryD
Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #7 - Feb 14th, 2010, 8:50pm
 
Sorry guys but I strongly believe you have to stop the dampness, not just bury it.  It may last a while but more likely the problem will reappear after a few months and you'll get that unwanted phone call to come back and put it right.............

It's the sort of job that's impossible to price.

I'd say spend a day investigating (at your day rate) and THEN price the work depending on what needs to be done.

If the walls are pourous and the cavity is bridged then big bucks may be needed.  It can't be helped, you didn't build it.

I say never do a makeshift repair as you then have inherited a lifetime's warranty on the work.  Every bit of damp that reappears in that room will be down to you forever!

And never say in your quote that you will 'cure the damp problem', say that you will investigate and report and re-quote.  The re-quote should only state what you intend to do (building work wise), not the result you hope to achieve.
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Zambezi
Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #8 - Feb 14th, 2010, 9:02pm
 
Thanks Jerry, you have pretty much confirmed what I was thinking.
Most of the solutions mentioned are treating the symptoms but not the cause.
It is a tricky job for me because I am way down the line...
Owner/property management company/maintenance company who then subs me. Every quote has to go all the way to the top and filter back down again. I don't know how much is added to or taken away from my quotes before they arrive on the owners desk?

I don't want to do the job unless I know I can do it properly with no come-backs.
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JerryD
Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #9 - Feb 14th, 2010, 11:03pm
 
Zamb, you have it in a nutshell in your last sentence - no come-backs!
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woodsmith
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Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #10 - Feb 15th, 2010, 8:53am
 
Quote:
Sorry guys but I strongly believe you have to stop the dampness, not just bury it.


Jerry, with a lot of barn conversions the walls are impossible to damp proof, mine are 2ft thick with a core of soil or whatever else they could throw in. The builders fitted one of those electric dpms to keep the NHBC happy, but they are about as much use as the proverbial chocolate fireguard. The only option is to dot and dab or stud off the wall. Done properly, it works well. Mine have been done for 12 years and apart from where the builders cocked it up I have had no problems. Though of course you are right, with a modern building it is better to cure the underlying problem.
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JerryD
Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #11 - Feb 16th, 2010, 10:53pm
 
Yes Woody, older, more unusual constructions require more radical measures but a relatively modern building should not have these problems.  It can be fairly easy to locate the problem but the client has to be prepared to pay for the investigation work otherwise everyone's guessing.

I assume this building hasn't always been damp?

Why was it drylined in the first place?
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Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #12 - Feb 17th, 2010, 8:24am
 
Zam, if you're that far down the 'chain' then, unless you're desperate for the work, walk away from it. Management companies are notorious for wanting the quickest job done at the lowest rate, and then you usually have to wait for your money!

Jerry's right, they'll want a cheapo job done but you'll be the patsy picking up the future comebacks.

We all know from experience that, unless you're incredibly lucky, hitting on the cause of a "damp problem" involves a lot of exhaustive work to narrow down the cause because you have to be sure. If it was a private customer with whom I was dealing direct then no problem, but a property management company? The relationship is too impersonal. No way!
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Zambezi
Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #13 - Feb 17th, 2010, 8:35am
 
The landlord was not happy with my suggestion of investigating and then quoting once the problem was found. The management company was trying to get me to do the stuff the previous person quoted for, for the same money and I said no, it would be double and the damp would come back again anyway. They asked what I could do within the budget they had to sort it for the next 12 months. I am going there tomorrow to stain block and decorate the place. I did say it would be impossible to say how long it would take for the damp to reappear but once the weather improves the windows will get opened and the place will dry out better, until next winter  Roll Eyes
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JerryD
Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #14 - Feb 18th, 2010, 9:10pm
 
Oh dear!  A cover-up job!

Nasty  Sad
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Zambezi
Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #15 - Feb 22nd, 2010, 8:16am
 
Not ideal but that is the story of my life at the moment, working for landlords. Everybody wants a bodge rather than a proper repair, which only ends up costing them more in the long run  Cry
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Re: Dot and dab damp?
Reply #16 - Feb 22nd, 2010, 9:08am
 
At least the cheque will have cleared by the time it reappears! Grin
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