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pressure flow from water (Read 7495 times)
morph
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pressure flow from water
Feb 25th, 2011, 7:37pm
 
Hi all,
i have a combi boiler in the Kitchen the reason i ask the question is i want to install a mixer shower in the attic room which is 3 floors up.
I already have a hot and cold feed coming from the sink in the attic room I was just concerned about the water pressure wondering if it would be sufficient for a mixer shower. Not sure if i would need a pump or not as i thought all combi Undecided boilers worked on high pressure. Any input would be much appreciated as i'm not to sure on how to go about this? Smiley
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Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #1 - Feb 25th, 2011, 8:59pm
 
Not allowed to fit a pump.

You need to get the incoming mains pressure and flow rate tested.

Could be 1bar lower in the new shower.
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Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #2 - Feb 25th, 2011, 10:21pm
 
Thanks for the input how do i test the flow rate and pressure? Could i purchase the tool to do this.
At present the combi boiler pressure is reading 1.6 bar if this is anything to go by.
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Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #3 - Feb 25th, 2011, 11:34pm
 
Good plumbers merchants sell pressure guages.  The flow rate you get as a result of that pressure will depend on a lot of things including..

The diameter and length of the pipe from the road to your house.
The diameter and length of pipes within the house
Restrictions caused by scale, valves, bends and joints
The power rating of the combi boiler (determines how much water it can heat per min).

You can measure flow rate with a bucket of known volume and a watch with a second hand. Convert it to Liters per min.
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« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2011, 11:36pm by CWatters »  
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Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #4 - Feb 26th, 2011, 4:33pm
 
CWatters thanks for your input much appreciated Wink
If it is anything to go by the shower in the bathroom has a thermostatic mixer valve on the shower and temperature and flow seems ok, however i would need to go a floor up into the attic. Not sure if this will effect the output and temperature of water.   At present i am just making sure i research as much info as possible so i don't make the wrong decision before installing a shower. This would be my first thermostatic shower install, i have replaced several bathrooms suites for the family so this is going to be a ambitious attempt for me Smiley the shower that is Undecided
I suppose i also need to find the technical info for the combi boiler. Any way thanks. Wink
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Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #5 - Feb 26th, 2011, 11:51pm
 
Going upwards you loose 0.1bar per meter. A floor is around 3m so the pressure one floor up would be about 0.3 bar lower.  May not be a problem if you start with 2-3 bar.  

What might be more of a problem is running both showers at the same time. You might find the flow rate drops then. What happens if you run the existing shower and turn on another hot tap or two ?
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Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #6 - Feb 27th, 2011, 3:59pm
 
The flow does tend to drop a little. i presume this is down to the boiler not being able to force enough water pressure and heat sufficient hot water in the time needed to reach the shower after travelling through the pipe work i think? Would this be correct? Huh
When you mention the 3 bar pressure  is this the bar pressure on the combi gauge? Smiley
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Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #7 - Feb 28th, 2011, 7:29am
 
The pressure guage on the combi probably measures the pressure in the central heating not the dhw.

Measure the pressure at a cold tap on the ground floor. If you have 3 bar there then on the first floor up (approx 3m higher) it will probably be around 2.7 bar. On the second floor around 2.4 bar etc.



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morph
Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #8 - Feb 28th, 2011, 6:43pm
 
Thanks for the information i will carry this out when i get around to it Thanks once again much appreciated. Smiley
also the make and model of the combi is a Glow worm compact 100 p
the specific water rate  for the boiler  states 14.03 1/min,
domestic circuit PMW = 10 BAR
heating circuit PMS    = 2.5 BAR

heat input  nett q = kw,
domestic hot water max = 32.2 Kw
heat output p = kw, max 29.3  
The distance which the water would need to travel would be  15 metres approximately of pipe this doesn't include any bends in the pipes.

Hope this can shed some light on the  issue so we can make a positive decision on the correct type of shower to install whether it be a a thermo mixer shower which i would prefer or an electric shower.Once again thankyou for your input Smiley
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2011, 10:06pm by morph »  
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Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #9 - Feb 28th, 2011, 11:08pm
 
The 14.03 L/min figure is the important one. There will normally be a footnote that says something like "with a 35C uplift" meaning that it can raise 14L/min by 35 centigrade. If the water comes in at 10C you get 14L/min at 45C out.  

The amount of water you need depends to some extent on the shower head and the water temperature (eg how much cold is added). Water saving shower heads draw around 7L/min I believe but if given the choice many people prefer higher flow rates around 10-12L/min. If you plan to install an old fashioned victorian rose or modern rain shower perhaps think again.

If you find it's not delivering enough water one option might be to add a  stored hot water tank. This would be plumbed into the central heating heating side of the boiler via a diverter valve. Perhaps leaving one shower on the regular DHW output. Before going down that route you would need to be very sure of the cause of the low flow rate (eg is it the boiler, incoming main or internal pipework).

A Glow worm compact 100p isn't the most efficient boiler in the world (71% & F grade according to google). If you were feeling rich or the boiler is unreliable you could consider upgrading the whole system with a new system boiler feeding a megaflow or similar mains pressure stored hot water system. These are generally better than combi systems when you have more than one shower. Perhaps wait and see.

PS. I guess you could try experimenting by running a hose from the kitchen tap up the stairs and out of an upstairs window to simulate the shower upstairs. See what sort of flow rate you get with that and the existing shower going. Don't flood the place though!
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2011, 11:11pm by CWatters »  
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morph
Re: pressure flow from water
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2011, 5:26pm
 
Like the last bit, it made me laugh Cheesy thought it was funny i think i better get the pressure of water measured first and then go from there. Once again thanks for your input Smiley
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