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Basin taps (Read 8359 times)
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Basin taps
Aug 5th, 2011, 9:20pm
 
Want to fit single hole wash basin tap in upstairs bathroom.
Max static head from floor to top of cold storage tank is 9.5 ft.
without taking into account pipe losses ,this equates to 0.28 Bar
Therefore I need a tap that will produce a good flow, bearing in mind very low water pressure.
Any recommendations please
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thescruff
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Re: Basin taps
Reply #1 - Aug 6th, 2011, 6:10am
 
Look for a tap that says 0.2bar, or lower.

Normally any tap with 10mm flexible tails would be unsuitable.
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Re: Basin taps
Reply #2 - Aug 7th, 2011, 11:03am
 
What thescruff said about flexible tails.

However I'm not entirely convinced you can rely on some manufacturers claims that their taps work at low pressure. You can find several makes with flexible tails that claim to work at 0.1 bar. Humm They might work but how much water comes out at that pressure? Would be nice to know the flow rate they predict. I suppose some makes might provide that data.

I once went to one of the big chain bathroom shops and asked about low pressure taps and was told _all_ their taps were suitable. Indeed all their taps on display had a sign on them to that effect. Not a chance. 
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Re: Basin taps
Reply #3 - Aug 7th, 2011, 3:29pm
 
15mm copper tails or flexible hoses, anything smaller you can forget normally.
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Re: Basin taps
Reply #4 - Aug 7th, 2011, 3:38pm
 
Thanks for help so far.
Pipe losses prior to entry into tap inlet will be lower if a flexible connector of same pipe dia ie 15mm was used and reduced down to fit tap female inlet port. This would increase flow volume to tap inlet comared to using small bore flexible. Therefore I would expect flow rate to increase. Currently this is 2 litrs/min.
Accepting restriction will affect flow, some improvement may be expected.
Technical information regarding pressire effect on flow is very scarce and I agree some suppliers/manufacturers/ installers don`t understand it or don`t want to know.
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Re: Basin taps
Reply #5 - Aug 8th, 2011, 5:16pm
 
I am trying to establish pressure bar figure more accurately
Guide line is 1 mtr column of water equates to 0.1 bar pressure
I have measured from basin tap outlet to top of water in cold storage tank,this measures 2.05 mtrs,therefore 0.25 bar pressure.
Are my assumptions correct.
If figure is correct would you install a single mixer basin tap bearing in mind tap minimium operating pressure is 0.2 bar.
Apologies for dragging this one out again
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Re: Basin taps
Reply #6 - Aug 8th, 2011, 6:46pm
 
The maximum is 0.2, not the minimum.

Pressure is only part of the equation, pipe size must also be taken into account.

Assume 10mm pipe could deliver 1Ltr/min, then 100mm pipe would fill a bath in about 10 secs.
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Re: Basin taps
Reply #7 - Aug 9th, 2011, 12:12am
 
Quote:
I am trying to establish pressure bar figure more accurately
Guide line is 1 mtr column of water equates to 0.1 bar pressure
I have measured from basin tap outlet to top of water in cold storage tank,this measures 2.05 mtrs,therefore 0.25 bar pressure.


0.25 bar would be the static pressure with the storage tank full and no water flowing. There will be some pressure losses in the pipes, bends and valves when the water is flowing so in practice the tap will "see" less than 0.25 bar. 

These days most manufacturers say high pressure is >0.5 bar and low pressure is <0.5 bar.

To be honest it's a waste of time trying to work it out very accurately. The problem is that you have 0.1-0.25 bar when a mains pressure system (eg combi boiler or mains pressure tank) would deliver perhaps 1 to 4 bar.  

As TheScruff said earlier, you need to find taps that claim to work on 0.2  bar or possibly even lower. Taps that claim to work on 0.1 bar should work better for you than those rated for 0.2 bar and above. It will help if they have copper tails rather than flexible because flexible pipe needs thicker walls that reduce the internal diameter and restrich the flow. I would also look to see if the manufacture claims the taps were specifically designed for low pressure.

The problem is that modern tap design has been driven by the availability of higher pressures. The way ceramic taps work means that the free area is never more than half the bore and frequently nearer a quarter. Nobody back in Victorian times would have designed a tap that worked like that. Their taps were the shape they were for practical reasons.. it lets more water past the washer.  
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young senior
Re: Basin taps
Reply #8 - Aug 28th, 2011, 9:43pm
 
Thanks to everyone for their help.
Kinectic Tavistock basin tap range is designed to operate on low pressure gravity systems. Purchased single lever mixer tap from Bathroom 365,price very competitive. Now fitted,at last a decent flow rather than a trickle.
Hope this information is of use to others who experience same problem. Seemed a simple job to change to new design, however didsn`t realise single hole taps mainly designed to operate at pressures higher than old style gravity systems
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Re: Basin taps
Reply #9 - Aug 29th, 2011, 5:39pm
 
I think it's more a case that the introduction of mains pressure systems (1986?) allowed tap designers greater flexibility to design modern single hole taps.  Prior to that all(?) systems were gravity so all taps had to be suitable for low pressure.

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