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Ask The Trades › DIY Forum › Electrical Questions › Converting MR16 lighting track to LED

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Converting MR16 lighting track to LED (Read 10365 times)

wozzer

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Converting MR16 lighting track to LED
Dec 4^th, 2012, 12:51pm

Hi,
Does anyone know if the constant-current LED drivers now available will work on a parallel wire track lighting system? by Parallel wire I mean that It has two wires, about 8 Metres long with 5 MR16 fittings clamped to the wires at intervals. Not sure what the correct name for it is!
The standard set-up is fed at one end by a toroidal transformer.
I would like to fit LED MR16 lamps, but don't know if the constant-current driver will work on this length of cable?
The on-line stores like LED Hut and SimplyLED haven't responded to my Tech support queries..Does anyone out there know? anyone tried it? Thanks,
Wozzer

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CWatters

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Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED
Reply #1 - Dec 5^th, 2012, 8:56am

I don't believe MR16 LEDs need a constant current supply. I think most are designed to be direct replacements for MR16 halogen so should operate just fine from the existing toroidal transformer.

A few electronic transformers react badly when the load is reduced but most are ok, as are wound transformers.

Aside: Look for LEDs that have a specified output in Lumens so you can compare directly with the halogen. Also check the beam angle is the same or understand the implications if it's different. I prefer "warm white" LEDs but these aren't quite as bright as "cool white" from the same manufacturer/range.

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CWatters

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Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED
Reply #2 - Dec 5^th, 2012, 9:05am

Just to answer the question... A parallel track system (with more than one bulb on it) won't work with constant current supply because the bulbs are in parallel.

It will work fine with one bulb but when you add a second the fixed current would be roughly split between the two bulbs reducing the brightness by half. Three bulbs would split the current three ways so each gets roughly a third of that required.

You would need to wire the bulbs in series somehow so they all get the same current. Can't see how that can be done with a parallel track.

But as I said in my first post just find MR16 that are intended to be direct replacements for 12v halogen and it should work fine with the existing transformer.

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CWatters Super Member Offline "Daddy fick it" says James Posts: 5150 Total Thanks: 58 For This Post: 0 Gender:	Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED Reply #3 - Dec 5^th, 2012, 9:19am Google found this. It's out of date but has info on halogen MR16.. http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/mr16_benchmark_11-0... Suggests a typical 20W halogen produces around 250-300 Lumens. Should be able to find 12V MR16 LEDs on ebay that match that for under £5 each.
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wozzer

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Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED
Reply #4 - Dec 5^th, 2012, 9:49am

The lamps I was intending to use are the nextgen available from Simply LED (Burton & Sons Trading) see the link:
http://www.simplyled.co.uk/MR16-LED-NxtGen-Series-II-Non-Dimmable-22-piece-SMD-5...

These are 430 Lumens output (cool white) at 60 Dgree beam angle - I have already fitted some of the GU10 versions, and am very pleased with them.
Good point about the constant current being divided across the lamps I must be honest, it didn't occur to me! (should have known better!).
I'l try them on the existing toroids & let you know what happens.
Thanks again.

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CWatters

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Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED
Reply #5 - Dec 5^th, 2012, 5:14pm

I've also got quite a lot of those GU10's based on the 5050 form factor LED. Many have been in over a year and work pretty well. I even have have one in a totally sealed IP67 downlight over the shower. Won't be buying CFL ever again.

The 60 degree angle on the ones you posted make them interesting. Most of the 5050 based LEDs have a very wide angle, approaching 180.

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wozzer

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Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED
Reply #6 - Dec 10^th, 2012, 2:14pm

Update: I fitted the GU10 LED's on the tracklines and used the existing transformer - excellent results! Measured the voltage on the trackline at both ends and there is only a very small variation (Volt Drop!) the toroids I am using apear to be pretty good ones, and the output with 5x 5W LED lamps is 12.25V. (With the original 5x 50W halogen MR16's this was nearer 11V as the transformer secondary "sagged" with the load.
I haven't bothered buying a specialised LED driver to try it, as the question of parallel loads we discussed earlier seems to rule it out.
Thanks for the advice! Grin

P.S. I won't be buying CFL's again either!

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carl125

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Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED
Reply #7 - Nov 29^th, 2013, 6:24am

i've tried many (few dozens) of led mr 16, not one is as bright as 40w halogen, the brightest one i got is 3x3w leds, seller said it is as bright as 40w lamp, well b.s. close to 30w halogen.
also don't calculate output by lm\w, leds in those bulbs are not driven to full potential, they have to build a lamp that might be used in fixtures that are sealed, so no airflow=heat issues, that is why they are not near 90lm\w or so , whatever datasheet for led says.
don't expect any single mr16 be as bright as single 40w halogen, few of them may be.

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Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED
Reply #8 - Nov 29^th, 2013, 7:46am

A 50W MR16/12V halogen is brighter than a 50W GU10/230Vhalogen due to the efficiency of MR16 being better than GU10. I believe this to do with the filament dimensions which depend on the voltage.

As a result you have to be careful what LED suppliers means by "equivalent to a 50W halogen". eg Are they talking about equivalent to a 50W MR16 or a 50W GU10 halogen? There is plenty of room for misleading advertising.

I have purchased many different GU10 LEDs from suppliers claiming 350-450 Lumens. These have all proved to be as bright as 50W GU10 Halogens (if you allow for the different beam angle!). Indeed the set I recently put in my bathroom down lights are slightly too bright for comfort - ideal for a kitchen but a bit too bright at 3am.

I've not purchased MR16 LED but can well believe that they aren't quite as bright as an MR16 Halogen but they may well be as bright as a GU10 Halogen. One option would be to go for wider angle beams and install them on the closer pitch normally used for GU10 Halogens?

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Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED
Reply #9 - Dec 1^st, 2013, 9:33am

Make sure you buy a couple of spares. This is because failure rates and longevity are never what the manufacturers would have us believe and product lines change.

So when you come to replace it, you will spend a huge amount of time trying to find a matching bulb in terms of light output, colour temperature, beam angle and physical appearance.

DAMHIKT

Never had this problem with good old filament bulbs.

Would all Third Party Apologists kindly mind their own business .....

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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8814 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: Converting MR16 lighting track to LED Reply #10 - Dec 1^st, 2013, 12:13pm Constant current drivers are for use with a single lamp, or a few in series. Not for parallel lamps like your suspension system.
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