Welcome To Ask The Trades!

Quote: The best way to remember your wife's birthday is to forget it once.
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterPM to admin  
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Broken Ring (Read 6846 times)
Beanzy
Trade Member
*****
Offline

It'll work... even If
I have to break it first.

Posts: 2227
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician

Re: Broken Ring
Reply #18 - Jun 4th, 2004, 8:22pm
 
Off fer a snoop. Though I may as well pack it in if all I do is keep spending it on Gizmos.

And so the gadget queen prances of into the forest of kitdom to be savaged by the online wolves.
Back to top
 

I was born in very sorry circumstances.........my father was very sorry and my mother was very sorry too.
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
rabbit_rabbit
Re: Broken Ring
Reply #17 - Jun 4th, 2004, 5:30pm
 
Sorry I was wrong about the cost of that low Ohmmeter from RS its a more resonable 237.75 at -

http://rswww.com/ and look up product code 611-953

Really is a fantastic device for fault finding with a resolution of 1 milliOhm!

RR
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
tidy
Junior Member
**
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 5
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0



Re: Broken Ring
Reply #16 - Jun 4th, 2004, 5:27pm
 
I am a sparky, but not a house basher!  I now am a maintenance spark for the water board.  Pumps, vs drives, motor controllers, plc's, that kinda thing.... and installs....  used to do all kinds of other leccy work, theatre electrics, lighting, rigging etc...  but steady job pays the rent now...

If a friend is buying a house, I usually have a nose at the electrics- it is truly shocking, the standard of workmanship to be found, bad installs which have been tinkered with by arseholes with screwdrivers.
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
rabbit_rabbit
Re: Broken Ring
Reply #15 - Jun 4th, 2004, 1:07pm
 
Tidy - sounds like ya a sparky mate. Walk away! I had a like situation, called out cz "..a socket ahs stopped working..." adding "... my son started to be trained as an electrician but gave up..." (so what?).

Anyway get there, socket in question was a spur off the immersion heater radial circuit (gulp), element had blown its lid and took out the fuse, hence no power at socket.

Now if ya think that was bad - the socket in question had been added by the son, using 1.00 t/e lighting cable! Told them the socket is dangerous, they said "...but it's been working.." "So what I reply, its dangerous"... "So ya not going to fix it then?" "Nope, bye". Ya can take a horse to the watering hole but....

RR
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
supersparky
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 6097
Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Broken Ring
Reply #14 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 11:54pm
 
just thinking here, are you an electrician? hate to say it but by the sounds of this instalation i wouldent go near it and thats comming from someone qualified, your ring splitting sounds a good idea though

ss
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post WWW  
IP Logged
 
tidy
Junior Member
**
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 5
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0



Re: Broken Ring
Reply #13 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 11:49pm
 
To clarify: One 32A MCB feeding 2x 2.5mm T&E
One T&E feeds 2 floors of reasonably sized victorian house inc a kitchen extension.  The other does not appear to energise any socket outlet in the house.  It may be that it is the return leg which is severed/ disconnected.  The ring would be way too big even if it were a ring.  To top it all, the kitchen, where all the hungriest appliances are, is at the end of the line.  

Have told householder that it should be seperated into prob 2 or 3 seperate rings.  In fact, I shouldn't even touch it, until she agrees for me to do that-

There is no easier way- I think.  Some people just wont be told that something is dangerous.  

"But it works!" they say.

"But its dangerous!" Shocked

"But it works!"

Walk away.
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
rabbit_rabbit
Re: Broken Ring
Reply #12 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 9:25pm
 
lol SS stop asking sensible questions would ya? Hence my question at the end of my last posting.

Beanzy - I was think of one those Wein Bridge instruments that ya can get from RS and cost about 900 and have a resolution of 1mOhm (yes, 1 milliOhm!).

They are superb instruments - I have to laugh seeing some sparkys checking zero with them by linking what look like two croc-clips. No reading, puzzled looks on their faces errr.... err.... "...it's faulty...". Nope mate its a four terminal devices (as in Wein Bridge) look very carefully at those croc-clips cntacts top and bottom on each! Red faces all round!!

Anway with those things ya ca find a needle in a haystack of wiring.

RR


Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
L.Spark
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 8069
Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


London, UK, United Kingdom
London, UK
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Broken Ring
Reply #11 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 3:52pm
 
yea the latter one seems to be the ticket  Tongue
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8698
Total Thanks: 90
For This Post: 0


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Broken Ring
Reply #10 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 3:40pm
 
i thought is was....

ring             100m
30amp rad    50m
20amp rad    20m


BUT, someone pointed out on the forum that it has changed since i last looked.....

ring             100m
30amp rad    75m
20amp rad    50m

I checked the regs, and thats it.
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
L.Spark
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 8069
Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


London, UK, United Kingdom
London, UK
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Broken Ring
Reply #9 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 3:23pm
 
i was under the impression it was 75sqM, i must check again!.
might be worth checking that circuit breaker just encase tho. Roll Eyes
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2004, 3:24pm by L.Spark »  
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8698
Total Thanks: 90
For This Post: 0


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Broken Ring
Reply #8 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 10:40am
 
if it is a radial, then 'if it aint broke - dont fix it'.  If you have not had any trouble with overloading, and it is a confirmed radial, i see no problem with it.

Recently, the floor area coverage of ccts has increased.

A 2.5mm radial can serve an area upto 50m/sq.
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
plugwash
Administrator
*****
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 1383
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0



Trade: Not Specified

Re: Broken Ring
Reply #7 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 10:24am
 
yes radials (no return leg) are fine provided the breaker is suitable for the cable that is
2.5mm - max 20A
4mm - max 32A

also if you do decide to convert to a ring bear in mind that rings have strict rules on spurring and radials don't so you must ensure you know about all spurs before you even consider such an operation
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post WWW plugwash plugwash 107767391 peter_m_green_zyworld_com plugwash  
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8698
Total Thanks: 90
For This Post: 0


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Broken Ring
Reply #6 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 10:08am
 
Very true Super S.

The way he words his most is as if there is simply no cable, not a break in a cable.

Tidy, do you know the cable is missing by looking in the fuseboard??  And seeing just one cable at the fuse??
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
supersparky
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 6097
Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Broken Ring
Reply #5 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 9:47am
 
erm...all seem to have ignored one thing;
what if its not ment to be a ring?
no one asked the raiting of the breaker and size of cable
...

ss
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post WWW  
IP Logged
 
Beanzy
Trade Member
*****
Offline

It'll work... even If
I have to break it first.

Posts: 2227
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician

Re: Broken Ring
Reply #4 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 7:41am
 
Yup if it's old enough or been bodged could be run back to another fuse or MCB, or to the lights etc etc.

Bit of an unfair advantage here as my Fluke does 0.1 Ohm. at +-9% . Mind you at 180 or so it should do something worthwhile for a living. I should spend more on clothes and less on this clutter.

Mr Beanzy the"Gadget Queen"
Back to top
 

I was born in very sorry circumstances.........my father was very sorry and my mother was very sorry too.
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
rabbit_rabbit
Re: Broken Ring
Reply #3 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 7:28am
 
I know the 'trick' ya mean it also involves use of a very low resolution Ohmmeter (as in R1 + R2) and the average meter is not good enough even a Robin continuity is marginal.

I am afraid Tidy it is a case of going through it rather boringly to find the break (all sockets and junction boxes). May I ask how do you know there is no return?

RR
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
HM
Super Member
*****
Offline

Chief Turd Polisher
Posts: 5072
Total Thanks: 0
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Re: Broken Ring
Reply #2 - Jun 3rd, 2004, 6:42am
 
I agree. You don't want a team of hungry lawyers pursuing you.

Andrew
Back to top
 

If you aren't always sure of the right answer don't take up a career in the bomb squad
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print