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Ask The Trades › DIY Forum › Electrical Questions › SHOWER TRIPPING RCD

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SHOWER TRIPPING RCD (Read 15561 times)

Chaddy

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SHOWER TRIPPING RCD
Nov 16^th, 2004, 9:18pm

???My mate has just fitted a 10.5kw shower for me along with a clipsal RCD unit. The problem i've got, is that as soon as you select any kind of temperature setting(i.e. you try to heat the water) the RCD trips!! Also the test button doesn't work on the RCD. Does this indicate a problem internally with the shower or is it the RCD???? ??? The pull switch has been bypassed to make sure that wasn't shorting.

« Last Edit: Mar 7^th, 2005, 7:54pm by LSpark »

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The_Trician

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Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD
Reply #1 - Nov 16^th, 2004, 9:48pm

If the RCD is ok, then it is only doing its job, which infers that your shower installation is faulty - either the cable, or the shower unit itself.

Clipseal is a crap brand but if its new it should be ok first time out.

Your shower unit could have an earth fault, and I'd get this checked out before further use is made of the unit for safety's sake.

TT

Thats the trouble with a colostomy - you can never find the shoes to match the bag.......

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Chaddy GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0	Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD Reply #2 - Nov 16^th, 2004, 9:54pm Yeah thought clipsal were shite. What do you recommend if and when it needs changing? Why doesn't the test button work??
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The_Trician

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Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD
Reply #3 - Nov 16^th, 2004, 10:21pm

MK is the way to go - dear but good.

Reason why test button doesn't work?
Well firstly, the thing has to be switched on.
Secondly, the thing has to be connected up correctly - is your 'mate' a sparky?

If neither of these are not the cause, then the RCD unit itself might be U/S. Its not unusual to find one dead-on-arrival straight out the box, but it is rare.

Is any of this gear second-hand by the way?

TT

Thats the trouble with a colostomy - you can never find the shoes to match the bag.......

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Chaddy GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0	Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD Reply #4 - Nov 16^th, 2004, 10:25pm All brand new!! He's not a sparky The RCD test button still doesn't trip even when powered up. Should the earth bonding cable from the shower supply pipe go to the CU or the new RCD enclosure?
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The_Trician

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Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD
Reply #5 - Nov 16^th, 2004, 10:36pm

The earth in the shower cables botyh to the shower and from the main switch should both go to the RCD earth terminal. You can also run an earth back to the CU if you wish. There should also be a seperate earth connecting the showr to the light fitting and to any exposed metalwork in the bathroom - eg radiator pipes, hot and cold feeds to bath & handbasin. This does not necessarily need to go all the way back to the CU.

The test button will not work unless there is an earth connected.

TT

Thats the trouble with a colostomy - you can never find the shoes to match the bag.......

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Chaddy GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0	Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD Reply #6 - Nov 16^th, 2004, 10:43pm Thanks TT. Will check this out tomorrow and let you know what the outcome is. Thanks for the advice. Chaddy
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The_Trician Trade Member Offline Posts: 7721 Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD Reply #7 - Nov 16^th, 2004, 10:51pm No worries - good luck. Its my guess that the thing's not been correctly wired/connected. TT
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Beanzy GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0	Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD Reply #8 - Nov 17^th, 2004, 5:54am Yep and watch out for the neutral on the wrong side of the split bar and/or the U link not taken out of the Neutral bars.
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sparkyjonny

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Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD
Reply #9 - Nov 17^th, 2004, 10:35am

[quote author=The_Trician link=1100639906/0#5 date=1100644598]The test button will not work unless there is an earth connected.

TT [/quote]

I thought an earth isn't needed on modern RCDs for testing - it creates an inbalance by linking the load phase with the supply neutral through a resistor? The earth is necessary for effective protection of the shower unit, but not for testing.

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The_Trician Trade Member Offline Posts: 7721 Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD Reply #10 - Nov 17^th, 2004, 11:18am You are probably right mate, but I can't see his actual RCD from here, so am just guessing. TT
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Chaddy

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Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD
Reply #11 - Nov 17^th, 2004, 5:58pm

Ok changed the RCD. everything worked great water got hot etc. Put the pull switch back on and it tripped. Thought it must be the switch shorting. Removed it joined the wires turned the power back on and it tripped Cry

and the test button no longer works on this new RCD. Is it possible to blow the RCD and is it repairable????
One other thing the earth bonding wire was fitted to the CU. When i removed it there was a small spark. Is this significant????

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Beanzy

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Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD
Reply #12 - Nov 17^th, 2004, 6:14pm

[quote author=Chaddy link=1100639906/0#11 date=1100714321]
One other thing the earth bonding wire was fitted to the CU. When i removed it there was a small spark. Is this significant???? [/quote]

Very!. You may have a neutral to earth short. Get a spark in to have a shufti properly as you may not have the kit to check insulation resistance or measure the current/voltage on that earth. Your earthing in the installation will be live, but may be of high enough impedence not to trip the main fuse immediately. So the short circuit capacity of the circuit and earth continuity will have to be checked too.

Another thing to check visually is the neutral bar at the consumer unit. Is this actually two bars with a feed from the main incoming bar to the secondary RCD bar? Sometimes there is a link between the two.

Do the phase (red or brown) wires all go to the same way number as their corresponding Neutrals and Earths on the respective bars?

I'd whip the L,N &E off the consumer unit for all of that shower circuit until you've had it checked.

« Last Edit: Nov 17^th, 2004, 6:18pm by Beanzy »

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The_Trician

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Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD
Reply #13 - Nov 17^th, 2004, 6:25pm

I know what the problem is - I think?

The clue is in the shower pull switch.

Its my bet that you have L going to L on one side but you have the other L in the N terminal and vice-versa.

Check how your pullswitch is connected up.

Red from mains should go to L and red to shower should go to L-load.

Black from Mains should go to N and Black to shower should go to N-Load.

Also check that your RCD hasn't been cross-connected in the same way.

Dunno if its knackered the RCD or not - you'll have to try it again once you are sure everythings correctly connected.

TT

Thats the trouble with a colostomy - you can never find the shoes to match the bag.......

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sparkyjonny GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0	Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD Reply #14 - Nov 17^th, 2004, 9:30pm Reverse polarity? Yes - good idea. Could be another fault, but it's a good starting point.
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Chaddy GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0	Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD Reply #15 - Nov 17^th, 2004, 9:35pm I thought it sounded like the switch, especially as it was fine until the switch was reconnected!! Got a professional coming tomorrow to check it over. Don't want to take any more chances.
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Chaddy GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0	Re: SHOWER TRIPPING RCD Reply #16 - Nov 17^th, 2004, 9:45pm Can you give me any ideas how much i can expect to pay to have the installation checked out?? I know it's a difficult question to answer but a ball park figure would help to make sure i don't get ripped off.
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