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large electric motor (Read 9601 times)
cnc_100
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large electric motor
Mar 25th, 2005, 10:38pm
 
hello out there
I'm about to install a dust extraction system which draws about 150 amps on full load. don't know if existing supply is man enough as must come from main distrubution board. must be star/delta start. also isolator must be before starter which is all getting very large now. any advice as to cable sizes and types and rating of circuit breaker and how large are isolators. large current for me as may need help. also may need seperate earth cable run (what size). any advice from start to finish appreciated.
cheers
cnc-100
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supersparky
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #1 - Mar 25th, 2005, 10:53pm
 
no way anyone can advise you mate, its impossible, its like asking the length of a piece of string.

150 amps is a ferking lot, then you say its star / delta wired, implying its three phase, we don't know the cable run, the caracteristics of the supply, thermal and other enviromental correction factors to apply, ect ect.

if its not three phase then your in the realm of mccbs and asking the electricity company for an upgrade i would think, and they won't instal anything unless you have a certificate for the work

and to be honest, you do need an electrician for this, don't forget if you don't work everything out, every correction factor, control circuit wiring, protection, cable type to use, instalation method, supply characteristics, other issues with existing instalation, ect ect the list goes on, and if there is a problem, its on your neck.

not worth it mate, 3 phase voltage is 415v, if you get hit with that your pretty much as good as dead, if you manage to survive then you would have to go to hospital anyway as it will cook you from inside instantly, please don't try this

ss
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« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2005, 10:54pm by supersparky »  
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #2 - Mar 25th, 2005, 11:50pm
 
We need more information -

What type of dust extraction system - maufacturer.
Is there just one motor?
Is the Mains supply 3 or single phase?

How far from the dist board to where the isolator/starter/motor will be?

Will the cable be buried? Will it be on tray? In trunking?

What type of cable? SWA? Singles in trunking/conduit?

More info please.

TT
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #3 - Mar 26th, 2005, 7:41am
 
What is the size/type of the premises?  150amp sounds too large for extraction.

I expect it to be 3 phase at this loading, and deffinantly if it needs star delta starting Wink

You are not simply adding current together are you?  It isn't simply a 50amp 3phase motor is it??  Thats more plausible.
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Jim Franklin
Re: large electric motor
Reply #4 - Mar 26th, 2005, 10:40am
 
[quote author=cnc_100  link=1111790324/0#0 date=1111790324]hello out there
I'm about to install a dust extraction system which draws about 150 amps on full load. don't know if existing supply is man enough as must come from main distrubution board. must be star/delta start. also isolator must be before starter which is all getting very large now. any advice as to cable sizes and types and rating of circuit breaker and how large are isolators. large current for me as may need help. also may need seperate earth cable run (what size). any advice from start to finish appreciated.
cheers
cnc-100 [/quote]

If you need to ask such questions, and ask them on a DIY forum, then you are OBVIOUSLY not qualified, competent or knowledgable to be undertaking such work.

This is obviously a Commercial premises, as such there is far more than BS7671 to consider, such as the Health and Safety at Work Act, the Management of Health and Safety at Work Act, The Electricity at Work Regulations Act (EWA), the Electricity Supply Act and a raft of other minor legislation.

For compliance with these Acts you MUST be COMPETENT to undertake the work, or in the case of two of them hold recognised proof of such competence in electrical Installation work.

Further, the size of the supply requires detailed work to be undertaken on the suply and the rest of the installation which you niether have the knowledge nor the experience to understand or undertake.

Do you understand the legal implications of your plans??
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #5 - Mar 26th, 2005, 11:07am
 
Exactly my thoughts Jim. And I would add a couple of other points to that excellent advice.

If you are a qualified tradesperson then you should have professional indemnity insurance to cover your backside in the event that something went wrong. My bet is that the insurers wouldn't touch this with a barge pole if a claim was submitted - because PI requires that you must be substantially qualified/experienced to take on the work they are covering risk for, and the indications are that you might not be qualified/experienced.

The second point to make about that situation is that without PI to cover your backside a law court would go after your personal property - car, house, clean out your bank account, everything. You would be left destitute, and depending upon the circumstances reflecting on the prison sentence you've been issued with. It wouldn't matter if you had a limited company in the way, a law court would put that aside and deal with it as though you were a private individual. And if on a sole trader basis then you run the risk of personal possessions being lost whatever happens 'cos there is no protection of personal belongings with sole trader status.

As Jim says quite correctly - are you quite sure you know what you are getting into?

HM
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #6 - Mar 26th, 2005, 11:24am
 
All valid points.  I am wondering if this is a 15amp motor Grin
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Jim Franklin
Re: large electric motor
Reply #7 - Mar 26th, 2005, 11:29am
 
This thread should be locked to prevent this idiot killing himself or someone else. You KNOW sooner or later Chubby will be along to tell him to put it on a plug!!
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #8 - Mar 26th, 2005, 12:27pm
 
Actually I see it as a serious question, all very well to make light of it with jokes about chubby etc, but to be honest there is some value in making sure non-qualified people know the trouble they might be letting themselves in for.

HM
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #9 - Mar 26th, 2005, 12:38pm
 
yup, it really is jobs like this we go to college for years and pay through the teeth for various registrations for Roll Eyes

ss
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Jim Franklin
Re: large electric motor
Reply #10 - Mar 26th, 2005, 2:41pm
 
[quote author=HM  link=1111790324/0#8 date=1111840021]Actually I see it as a serious question, all very well to make light of it with jokes about chubby etc, but to be honest there is some value in making sure non-qualified people know the trouble they might be letting themselves in for.

HM
[/quote]

[quote author=supersparky  link=1111790324/0#9 date=1111840725]yup, it really is jobs like this we go to college for years and pay through the teeth for various registrations for Roll Eyes

ss [/quote]


I agree Guys, hence my original post on this topic, but it isn't often I get the chance to fire a shot across Chubby's bows!! Cheesy

It is for this reason I want to see the Regs and everywhere else get rid of this bull about Competent person and replace it with QUALIFIED PERSON, and also for Part P to be modified to BAN ALL DIY ELECTRICAL WORK that goes beyond the simple replacement of accessories, lamps and turning things on and off!
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #11 - Mar 26th, 2005, 3:14pm
 
On that note I'd add that many items have "if you are unsure please consult a qualified electrician" this is not happening by the looks of most places..
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cnc_100
Re: large electric motor
Reply #12 - Mar 26th, 2005, 4:00pm
 
thanks for replies but i can assure you that all areas have been covered as far as h&s or anything else. there will be an army of qualified electricians and electrical engineers involved in this project. a little more info. might be useful as larger projects than this are done quite often. usually these systems will use a soft start or inverter, but star/delta start is possible. starting the motor is really the only consideration here and only one motor is involved. cable run is about 15 metres and normally done in swa. you don't do jobs like these until electrical supply authority has checked it out first. was only a topic of conversation for someone with similar experience to respond to. this 3 phase system is run outside and only small to what we used to install in steel works years ago. shouldn't condemn until you understand or stick to lights and sockets. not a bad idea.
thanks
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #13 - Mar 26th, 2005, 4:14pm
 
1. this is a diy forum.
2. you asked for advice;
Quote:
any advice as to cable sizes and types and rating of circuit breaker and how large are isolators. large current for me as may need help. also may need seperate earth cable run (what size). any advice from start to finish appreciated.


3. if there are an army of electricians and engineers" involved then why are you asking how to do it?

4. Quote:
shouldn't condemn until you understand or stick to lights and sockets

to be honest, with the questions your asking, i wouldent trust you with either.

5. Quote:
you don't do jobs like these until electrical supply authority has checked it out first.


why would the supply authority "check it out?"
your electrician/engineer/electrical contractors will request a supply of xxKW" and the supply co will install.....
obviously they will charge more if you don't have a very good power factor on your instalation....but thats for your "army" to be concerned with Smiley

sorry, don't mean to be harsh, but this is a wind up or its got the distinct smell of male equivilant of cow...."poo"

ss
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #14 - Mar 26th, 2005, 4:28pm
 
Quote:
sorry, don't mean to be harsh, but this is a wind up or its got the distinct smell of male equivilant of cow...."poo"  

I agree, I suggest you leave this to that army of electrical engineers, design like this is more involved than you know  Roll Eyes
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #15 - Mar 26th, 2005, 4:32pm
 
150A spikes might do interesting things to nearby office computers if isn't done right.
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Re: large electric motor
Reply #16 - Mar 26th, 2005, 6:23pm
 
[quote author=Jim Franklin  link=1111790324/0#10 date=1111848112]It is for this reason I want to see the Regs and everywhere else get rid of this bull about Competent person and replace it with QUALIFIED PERSON, and also for Part P to be modified to BAN ALL DIY ELECTRICAL WORK that goes beyond the simple replacement of accessories, lamps and turning things on and off! [/quote]

Jim, I am in 100% agreement with you on this subject, even though that would have prevented me from taking on some of the minor work I have been happy to previously. At least then there would be certainty instead of airy-fairy nonsense such as Part P.

When you drive down the road there is certainty that the speed limit is 30mph (or whatever). There is no deliberation about whether you might be competent to drive faster. And I live with that certainty no problem.

I wouldn't actually mind if the government took the same attitude as Australia and other countries, where you can't touch anything unless you are qualified.

HM
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