Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Welcome To Ask The Trades!
May 5th, 2026, 10:54am
Quote: Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.


Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Safe Zones (Read 18601 times)
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8815


Total Thanks: 109
For This Post: 0


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Safe Zones
Reply #17 - Jan 18th, 2009, 11:20am
 
The NIC have stated that FP200 is not suitable for use out of zones, however, FP400 or it's equivalent is fine to use.

FP400 is basically armoured FP200.
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
wozzy
Trade Member
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 584


Total Thanks: 4
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Safe Zones
Reply #18 - Jan 18th, 2009, 11:38am
 
i was told that when i went to a NICEIC 17th edition seminar.

I cannot find a mention in the 17th 522.6.6 for cables complying to BS8436.  My reason for all of this as on another forum i visted it was suggested that a cable to this BS could be installed outside of a safe zone.

As there is no mention of this number in the 17th 522.6.6 does this mean this type of cable is now obselete?

http://tpwcc.com/flexishield.html
Back to top
 

All advice is at least two years out of date.
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
LSpark
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 8069


Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


London, UK, United Kingdom
London, UK
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Safe Zones
Reply #19 - Jan 18th, 2009, 2:44pm
 
Lectrician wrote on Jan 18th, 2009, 11:20am:
The NIC have stated that FP200 is not suitable for use out of zones, however, FP400 or it's equivalent is fine to use.

FP400 is basically armoured FP200.

Why would anyone pay all that money and put in FP400 fire RESISTANT cable to solve the zone/RCD issue when an RCD would still be required for almost all socket outlets. Most people would not even install normal SWA, let alone some fancy FP cable.

At least if your house burns down and you install MICC you'll have something left to salvage  Grin
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Lectrician
Administrator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 8815


Total Thanks: 109
For This Post: 0


Braunton, North Devon, United Kingdom
Braunton, North Devon
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Safe Zones
Reply #20 - Jan 18th, 2009, 4:21pm
 
I assume you would use FP400 if you required it to be fire proof........the supply to a fire alarm being run out of zones for example Wink
Back to top
 

Need to post a picture? Click HERE for info!
Thank User For This Post WWW View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
LSpark
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 8069


Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


London, UK, United Kingdom
London, UK
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Safe Zones
Reply #21 - Jan 18th, 2009, 7:24pm
 
Indeed. But most situations that bring up the topic of zones are in relation to normal domestic situations, where the budget won’t stretch to that type of cable.

Ideal though for residential accommodation, HMO's etc
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Goodsparks
Re: Safe Zones
Reply #22 - Jan 19th, 2009, 7:59pm
 
7671 - Page 100 reg. 522.6.5/6

Flexishield (TPWCC) 300/500v is to BS 8436 and can be used outside of the safe zones.

2c 1.5mm is around £60 / 100m

Pirelli LSX, IDH Guardian, Pyrotenax Multiplus, Nexans Alsecure are all the same stuff and pass the same ERA 'nail penetration' test but are generally rated at 600/1000v which puts them outside of the scope of BS 8436.

Paul
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jan 19th, 2009, 8:07pm by Goodsparks »  
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
wozzy
Trade Member
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 584


Total Thanks: 4
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Safe Zones
Reply #23 - Jan 20th, 2009, 7:31pm
 
i read that reg a few times and still missed that BS number in the reg, i think that says quite alot about how i read
Back to top
 

All advice is at least two years out of date.
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
LSpark
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 8069


Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


London, UK, United Kingdom
London, UK
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Safe Zones
Reply #24 - Jan 20th, 2009, 7:36pm
 
Says more about what you read than how you read Wozzer  Grin

GS, LSX is just standard FP cable, or did I miss something?.. it's certainly not nail proof!
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Goodsparks
Re: Safe Zones
Reply #25 - Jan 20th, 2009, 11:26pm
 
Quote:
GS, LSX is just standard FP cable, or did I miss something?.. it's certainly not nail proof!


LSX isn't FP.

FP maintains electrical integrity when exposed to heat/fire/water and produces limited harmful emissions but the insudite insulation only has a 70 oC operating temperature (for circuit design / cable calcs). The aluminium foil screen is designed for emc shielding and is not of sufficient thickness to withstand the fault current necessary to operate a 32a type B mcb when penetrated by a nail.

LSX (and all the others listed) do not maintain electrical integrity in a fire and cannot be used for life safety services, the live conductors have XPLE (thermosetting) insulation (90 oC so 32a radials possible on 2.5 2c) The aluminium screen is thicker and will withstand the fault current required to trip the 32a MCB. The cables are generally LSF so are good for use in exposed public areas where poisoning isn't really an option.

The requirement for concealed conductors isn't to be nailproof, but to safely disconnect the supply when hit with the nail.

www.prysmian.co.uk/export/sites/prysmian-enGB/attach/pdf/Afumex_LSX.pdf -

Paul

Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
LSpark
Global Moderator
Trade Member
Author
*****
Offline


Posts: 8069


Total Thanks: 3
For This Post: 0


London, UK, United Kingdom
London, UK
United Kingdom

Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Safe Zones
Reply #26 - Jan 21st, 2009, 9:06pm
 
Interesting, I only say because I'm sure I noticed LSX markings on some pirelli FP type cable. I'm going to have to do some research now!. Tis all your fault  Wink
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jan 21st, 2009, 9:07pm by LSpark »  
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
wozzy
Trade Member
*****
Offline

Ask The Trades
Posts: 584


Total Thanks: 4
For This Post: 0


Gender: male

Trade: Electrician



Re: Safe Zones
Reply #27 - Jan 23rd, 2009, 7:39pm
 
2c 1.5mm is around £60 / 100m

where you get this price from? i was quote £130!!! plus VAT
Back to top
 

All advice is at least two years out of date.
Thank User For This Post View members image gallery  
IP Logged
 
Goodsparks
Re: Safe Zones
Reply #28 - Jan 24th, 2009, 9:17pm
 
Cleveland cables for flexishield or Batt for IDH Guardian.

Paul
Back to top
 
Thank User For This Post  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print