Ask The Trades - So What

ChubbyPhaseWire GDPR opt-out	So What May 25^th, 2009, 2:14pm Light bulbs will no longer be labelled in watts under new EU rules. It has decided to replace the energy measurement - named after the 18th century British inventor James Watt - with 'lumens', which identify how much light a bulb gives out.
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: So What Reply #1 - May 25^th, 2009, 2:42pm Umm.....Presumably they will still put the wattage on the lamp somewhere to enable the correct selection of transformer, dimmer and overcurrent device etc!
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The_Trician Trade Member Offline Posts: 7721 Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0 Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: So What Reply #2 - May 25^th, 2009, 3:10pm More Euro-shite. The sooner we are out of bloody Europe the better. TT
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ChubbyPhaseWire GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 8 For This Post: 0	Re: So What Reply #3 - May 25^th, 2009, 4:22pm Lectrician wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 2:42pm: Umm.....Presumably they will still put the wattage on the lamp somewhere to enable the correct selection of transformer, dimmer and overcurrent device etc! Under the new labelling system, due to be introduced in September next year, a 60W light bulb will be renamed with its equivalent, 800Lm.
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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: So What Reply #4 - May 25^th, 2009, 5:07pm They must still provide the wattage though. There is no way they can ommit it. We can not be expected to know what current a certain type or even make of lamp is going to draw by the amount of lumens it produces.
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Y3

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Re: So What
Reply #5 - May 25^th, 2009, 8:46pm

There is probably more to the story that chub isnt letting on, which he is so famous for doing on here, which in turn winds "certain" people up. Maybe they will bring out a Lumens to Wattage conversion chart? Grin

It sounds too silly to be true, why change something that has been around for a hundred years or so? (I dont know the exact yearage)

TT, I dont think we will ever get away from the EU, did you see jonathan dimbleby the other day? The woman from UKIP stating that 75% (i think??) of the guidelines that our government works to is governed by the EU. I certainly dont want us to be part of it and dont know why have have become part of it, but its not through the british publics permission that we have??? I cant understand that!! Tossers

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Lectrician

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Re: So What
Reply #6 - May 25^th, 2009, 9:03pm

Quote:

. Maybe they will bring out a Lumens to Wattage conversion chart? Grin

Thats impossible as every different type of light source (high pressure sodium, low pressure sodium, high pressure mercury (MBF), Flourescents, metal halide, halogen, cold cathode etc etc etc all have a different lumen output per watt - thats what makes some light sources favourable to others.

You also have to consider that some manufacturers are likely to be more efficent than others.

At the end of the day watts are watts.

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CWatters

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Re: So What
Reply #7 - May 25^th, 2009, 9:25pm

Quote:

Light bulbs will no longer be labelled in watts under new EU rules.
It has decided to replace the energy measurement - named after the 18th century British inventor James Watt - with 'lumens', which identify how much light a bulb gives out.
Sad

That's great news. Long overdue. No longer will manufacturers of wimpy LED bulbs be able to claim that their bulbs are "equivalent to a 60W" when actually they produce less light than a 20W.

However in my view they should put three things on the box...

1) The brightness in Lumens
2) The efficiency in Lumens per Watt
3) The wattage.

For reference:

A 50W halogen downlight produces around 800-900 Lumens. A 35W Halogen produces around 500-600 Lumens.

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londonman

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Re: So What
Reply #8 - May 25^th, 2009, 9:48pm

CWatters wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 9:25pm:

Quote:

Light bulbs will no longer be labelled in watts under new EU rules.
It has decided to replace the energy measurement - named after the 18th century British inventor James Watt - with 'lumens', which identify how much light a bulb gives out.
Sad

That's great news. Long overdue. No longer will manufacturers of wimpy LED bulbs be able to claim that their bulbs are "equivalent to a 60W" when actually they produce less light than a 20W.

However in my view they should put three things on the box...

1) The brightness in Lumens
2) The efficiency in Lumens per Watt
3) The wattage.

For reference:

A 50W halogen downlight produces around 800-900 Lumens. A 35W Halogen produces around 500-600 Lumens.

4/ How long they take to reach full brightness after switch-on
5/ Whether or not they may cause migraines
6/ What heavy metals have been used in their manufacture

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Would all Third Party Apologists kindly mind their own business .....

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CWatters

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Re: So What
Reply #9 - May 25^th, 2009, 9:57pm

Quote:

It sounds too silly to be true, why change something that has been around for a hundred years or so?

It's mainly because the efficiency of light bulbs hasn't changed much for a 100 years. The problem is LEDs. We are already in the strange position of 11W LEDs producing more light than a 13W CFL.

In the future we will also see 9W LEDs from manufacturer A producing more light than a 13W LED from manufacturer B. Which is better? You can't tell unless you know how many Lumens they produce.

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CWatters

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Re: So What
Reply #10 - May 25^th, 2009, 10:12pm

Quote:

author=londonman link=1243257255/8#8 date=1243284511
4/ How long they take to reach full brightness after switch-on
5/ Whether or not they may cause migraines
6/ What heavy metals have been used in their manufacture

Perhaps. These are mostly CFL issues.

Perhaps surprisingly there is no scientific evidence they cause headaches. Modern CFLs actually switch faster than incandescent so they should flicker less. If there is a problem it's likely to be with older linear tubes.

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/compact-fluorescent-light...

Quote:

"We have not published a study linking CFLs and migraine," Karen Manning, head of membership support for the Migraine Action Association, told The Daily Green. "The recent media activity has been in response to anecdotal reports we have received from many migraine sufferers who have experienced adverse health effects following introducing low energy light bulbs into their homes. I am not aware of any scientific evidence on this subject, but as an Association we would welcome this to confirm there are real health issues affecting migraine sufferers."

http://www.migraine.ie/index.php?id=258

Quote:

The Migraine Association of Ireland are not aware of any scientific evidence which states that CFL light-bulbs cause adverse health effects for migraine sufferers.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=flickering-fallacy-cfl-bulb-hea...

Quote:

Flickering Fallacy: The Myth of Compact Fluorescent Lightbulb Headaches
snip
Sometimes headaches are due to eyestrain from inadequate lighting. When replacing an incandescent bulb with a CFL, pay attention to the lumens, which indicate the amount of light a bulb gives out (watts measure the energy use of a bulb, not the light generated).

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« Last Edit: May 25^th, 2009, 10:15pm by CWatters »

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LSpark

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Re: So What
Reply #11 - May 26^th, 2009, 12:06am

Quote:

Under the new labelling system, due to be introduced in September next year, a 60W light bulb will be renamed with its equivalent, 800Lm. Wink

Love to know where you get your 60W tungsten lamps that provide 800lm!

But back to the subject, I think chubbs may be distorting this topic as y3 suggested. The fact is that most lamps already carry an energy rating that is calculated by the watts/lumens calculation and is also partialy influenced by how long the lamp lasts, don't ask me what the technocalulus sum is but that's how it is. Lumens *should* also be displayed with the energy rating, however on occasion they are ommited, I won't name and shame but the makers know who they are.

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« Last Edit: May 26^th, 2009, 12:10am by LSpark »

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Y3

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Re: So What
Reply #12 - May 26^th, 2009, 4:58pm

Lectrician wrote on May 25^th, 2009, 9:03pm:

Quote:

. Maybe they will bring out a Lumens to Wattage conversion chart? Grin

Thats impossible as every different type of light source (high pressure sodium, low pressure sodium, high pressure mercury (MBF), Flourescents, metal halide, halogen, cold cathode etc etc etc all have a different lumen output per watt - thats what makes some light sources favourable to others.

You also have to consider that some manufacturers are likely to be more efficent than others.

At the end of the day watts are watts.

Somebody is lacking in a sense of humour, notice the smiley face at the end? Grin

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Lectrician Administrator Trade Member Author Offline Ask The Trades Posts: 8815 Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0 Braunton, North Devon United Kingdom Gender: Trade: Electrician	Re: So What Reply #13 - May 26^th, 2009, 5:04pm Maybe I didn't think you were funny
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ChubbyPhaseWire GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0	Re: So What Reply #14 - May 26^th, 2009, 5:27pm Quote: There is probably more to the story that chub isnt letting on, which he is so famous for doing on here, which in turn winds "certain" people up. Its called a sprat
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Y3 GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0	Re: So What Reply #15 - May 26^th, 2009, 5:55pm Lectrician wrote on May 26^th, 2009, 5:04pm: Maybe I didn't think you were funny Nope, your a male equivalent to an Ice Queen (actually forget the equivalent part )
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Y3 GDPR opt-out Total Thanks: 109 For This Post: 0	Re: So What Reply #16 - May 26^th, 2009, 5:56pm Quote: Quote: There is probably more to the story that chub isnt letting on, which he is so famous for doing on here, which in turn winds "certain" people up. Its called a sprat What do you mean?
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